NVil Forum
General Category => NVILL Discussion => Topic started by: arvin00 on August 10, 2013, 02:41:25 am
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What happened to IStonia?? I can't seem to find any development now, did something happened? are you planning V2? PLease don't stop developing NViL.
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settle down a little. he does this on the side and still needs to work and have a social life.
updates will happen when he has time to do so.
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oh ok, I thought everything was scrapped. well anyway thanks for the reply:)
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This thread reminds me slightly of the silo boards when Jam&Feed went quiet. Things started to get pretty ugly and the reason was that a lot of the guys there were so used to very regular feedback direct from the horse's mouth.
Hope it doesn't go the same way round here.
I've been pretty quiet round here for a long time, but I'm going to be using Nvil a lot in the near future so that might change.
Hope everything's alright with Kun.
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i really dont make much of it, i work a fulltime job and got a few large projects on the side, and it can take weeks for me to even get time to look at those projects, than sometimes i can work a lot at them at once.
im sure it is the same with istonia, since i know he dosnt live off the very little $ nvil brings in
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Relax people. If you find a bug in NVil, make a video showing the bug and submit it to Istonia. He is pretty fast figuring the problem. Nevertheless, sometimes he breaks other parts :D but at least he is doing something. (Take that nevercenter silo3d)
And if you have a request, make sure that it is something doable and have a ton of patience. New features require more time because it needs new algorithms, ui, workflow, testing, etc.
So far I am very happy with NVil and the direction that it is taking. I bought the program after testing it for two hours. Although I could have been playing with the demo (1000 poly limit) for much longer I just had to support the developer(s). They have done a very nice job with the program and it feels like they have put a lot of thought into it.
Now lets model some awesome stuff and let the world know what NVil is capable of doing.
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I wish Kun will update NVil, NVil is a great modelling software but lacking. Hey Kun if you're reading this I am willing to pay an upgrade fee for v2 provided it would complete NVil as a modelling software with good uv mapping tools and also a upgrade in the viewport where we could show our model with a beautiful render shot.
I see NVil as a software that someday will lead into a mainstream software for Game Devs and maybe Filmmakers, completing what Silo didn't a software that can Model, UV map, Sculpt and maybe even Polypaint.
Thanks Kun
:)
EDIT: I think V2 would be good for NVil because I think with the release of V2 people will make noise about it. Oh yeah with V2 I can also make tutorials on youtube showing how great NVil is together with Blender, thanks again:)
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I wouldn't rush to v2. People hardly noticed there's v1! The website isn't very attractive, the documentation needs a rework, there are no tutorials and there are still some bugs left that need fixing.
But I agree, that the UV tools are apalling as they are now.
For V2 I imagine something like work on performance, a 64Bit version, a new GUI (Qt for example). I don't see any need for a integrated renderer, but for more supported file types to export and import (FBX), app-links. For Sculpting and painting there is already sophisticated software that handles that really well. Nvil should stick to its guns, which is fully customizable, fast modelling (and hopefully UV Mapping). And adding big features like sculpting and painting also would add to the price tag, maybe even keep people from buying it.
And if V1 doesn't sell, there probably won't be any V2.
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I read some posts about NVil on Modo forum and while some people were amazed by its features, some complained that they won't buy an unknown software basing on a single image (the weapon on the main page: http://digitalfossils.com/).
Nvil's website really needs a gallery section of some kind! Also, maybe some forum section to encourage people to post their work into (be it WIP or completed stuff), so Kun can have some source pool to pick images from in order to fill that gallery.
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I did not mean a integrated renderer but what I meant was a good viewport rendering like viewport 2.0 in maya, I got my idea with this when I was playing with the materials section. I agree adding sculpting and texturing will add to the tag price but it will lead to a better community and better development also adding these features may attract companies in using this software rather than us individual artist.
+1 to the gallery section it would not only help people into buying this software but it would also help exciting users to be inspired and make something for the community.
Thanks
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I did not mean a integrated renderer but what I meant was a good viewport rendering like viewport 2.0 in maya,
That would probably require a new display API. If that was something fairly easy/quick to add, then it would of already been done (IMHO)
I agree adding sculpting and texturing will add to the tag price but it will lead to a better community and better development also adding these features may attract companies in using this software rather than us individual artist.
I would find that doubtful. Anyone serious about sculpting would be looking at Zbrush or 3d-coat.
+1 to the gallery section it would not only help people into buying this software but it would also help exciting users to be inspired and make something for the community.
I agree a WIP/finished project forum would be good, but how many would contribute to such a forum?
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That would probably require a new display API. If that was something fairly easy/quick to add, then it would of already been done (IMHO)
True, that is why I said for V2, but it can also be on V3 when somethings have been added and improve like uvmapping(maybe even sculpting and texturing).
I would find that doubtful. Anyone serious about sculpting would be looking at Zbrush or 3d-coat.
I somewhat disagree because you can find in NVil that you will not find in those software and that is polygonal modelling I find that a plus.
Since NVil needs to grow it would really hard to tell now if they will not go to NVil for sculpting, look at blender for example there are people who use blender for serious sculpting even though it is very inferior in sculpting compared to those. Another thing it is good to have competition rather than having only zbrush as your sculpting software(also monopoly would stagnant growth) because with a opponent like that NVil would need some feature that would make people choose NVil rather than zbrush(maybe even price).
I agree a WIP/finished project forum would be good, but how many would contribute to such a forum?
I would:)
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I somewhat disagree because you can find in NVil that you will not find in those software and that is polygonal modelling I find that a plus.
Both Silo and Hexagon added sculpting, where are they now?
I agree a WIP/finished project forum would be good, but how many would contribute to such a forum?
I would:)
Post some WIPs/finished projects to this forum, once it is seen users are posting and showing a demand for a WIP/finished projects forum, I am sure one would be added.
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As one could have inferred from my previous posting, I don't think NVil needs more features (except for sophisticated UV-Mapping and just maybe a new GUI) to really kick off and hit the market. It is a decent website, marketing and support (by that I mean tutorials) that are lacking.
I'm not saying NVil shouldn't further improve, but I seriously believe that the software has what it takes to become a known 3D-modeller in the business as was once Silo. Silo had for example Glen Southern and other names to back them up with tutorials and testimonials.
I'm just mentioning this, because I was under the impression that this thread had become less about delevopment and more about getting more people on board.
I really wish I had more time to spend it working with NVil to produce some artwork to put in some gallery section and also make tutorials/demonstrations. But at the moment, progress is really slow because I'm busy.
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Both Silo and Hexagon added sculpting, where are they now?
Well you have a point, I just wanted to express want I wanted from NVil. I thought of adding sculpting because of what C4D, modo, and blender did they have poly painting and sculpting in them.
I don't think NVil needs more features (except for sophisticated UV-Mapping and just maybe a new GUI) to really kick off and hit the market. It is a decent website, marketing and support (by that I mean tutorials) that are lacking.
I agree with you, if sculpting and poly painting will not be added I think the only way NVil would kick off is be the best modelling software out there and have a great UV-mapping tools(marmoset toolbag like functtionality would also be nice) with good integration with other software like maya, max, blender and others or just have great export selection.
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64-bit version to support large scenes, a better viewport performance, Maya-like user-friendly outliner, batch rename operations and MatCap materials to inspect surfaces is all that I want from NVil.
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I read some posts about NVil on Modo forum and while some people were amazed by its features, some complained that they won't buy an unknown software basing on a single image (the weapon on the main page: http://digitalfossils.com/).
Nvil's website really needs a gallery section of some kind! Also, maybe some forum section to encourage people to post their work into (be it WIP or completed stuff), so Kun can have some source pool to pick images from in order to fill that gallery.
I have tried to encourage people to post images several times but it has been bust trying to get good quality art made with nvil, this is what i was hopeing i would get from the the "What are you working on" (http://voidworld.cmcproductions.co.uk/index.php/topic,9.0.html) thread i have sticked in the nvil discussion forum.
If people can provide me with some good art to use, i will create a gallery as a new section to the site.
Right now the things i think are dogging nvil the most are UV mapping, performance, and UI i intend to do a pretty comprehensive mock up of a possible UI direction in the future.
for a gallery i want to let some good content make it;s way into the mentioned forum, than i think i will hand pick, or put up to vote some stuff that i will make a gallery page out of.
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If people can provide me with some good art to use, i will create a gallery as a new section to the site.
What do you consider "good art"?
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I wouldn't rush in v2 either. Some serious work needs doing on the site. The front page is just awful. The documentation is riddled with spelling mistakes, something a spell checker would pick up.
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I'm not really trying to rush on V2 but I just want a confirmation with alpha/beta releases like in any other software and maybe it would take around a year or so to finish the V2. Like if V2 have a feature that cannot be ignored I will share it to other forums and ask them what they think and persuade them into using NVil.
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You do realise if there ever was a v2 it wouldnt be a year thing. Projects like this are complex and take years unless worked on full time with multiple people.
UV editor, performance than ui need to be worked on and in that order.
Even just making the uv editor a window that can be up while modeling instead of only work in face mode would be huge.
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ohhh, sorry if I offended you in anyway, I won't make any excuses. I just hope that you developers will generate enough money from NVil to develop NVil further. Once I get better in modelling I will try to help by making tutorials in Blender or in MAYA using NVil as my modelling software.
Thanks ;D
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Not offended or anything I just saying it will take kun a very long time if he started a v2 since he has to work this around his job and social life.
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by the way is Kun the only one working on NVil?
another thing would it be simple to add a addon option? like adding python scripting to add features into NVil since python is easy enough to learn for a beginner like me.
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<<viewport performance>>
If IStonia will may (may/can/..?) to use CUDA or OpenCl then possible it's will fix the problem. But it's possible is very very hard..
http://managedcuda.codeplex.com/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/openclnet/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/cloo
p.s. The 3dcoat using CUDA for increasing of perfomance.
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Think performance on the CPU should be worked on first, cuda and opencl dont work on all gpus. Also when comparing to a other app that runs all on the CPU like Maya performance is still very behind.
It is a combination of not being as optomized and that c# isn't as fast as c++ performance wise.
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Think performance on the CPU should be worked on first, cuda and opencl dont work on all gpus.
Although Cuda is specific to nVidia, openCL will work on both nVidia and AMD.
Also when comparing to a other app that runs all on the CPU like Maya performance is still very behind.
I was under the impression Maya used DirectX . The latest version uses DirectX 11
http://www.autodesk.co.uk/products/autodesk-maya/overview
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<<viewport performance>>
Can you be more specific as to what viewport performance issues you are having?
One thing to note. I found an issue with the display (both nVidia and AMD) in that if you have the number of processors above 1, the display can become jumpy (example:- When rotating view, the view rotation can suddenly stop, then jump to where it should be).
Edit-> Options-> Set Number of Processors. Set to 1
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@steve Maya only uses directx while in viewport 2.0 mode or it renders on CPU and GPU when using hlsl shaders.
Directx only works with tris so it can do the surface rendering for a 3d app but it dosnt know how to handle quads and ngons.
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@steve Maya only uses directx while in viewport 2.0 mode or it renders on CPU and GPU when using hlsl shaders.
So it uses openGL in other viewport modes? Here are the results from a test for maya 2013 on opengl hardware:- http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-workstation-graphics-card,3493-8.html#
Directx only works with tris so it can do the surface rendering for a 3d app but it dosnt know how to handle quads and ngons.
Yes, that is why quads/n-gons are split into tris for viewport display. Nvil uses MDX(managed direct X) and you can create quads/Ngons, but they are split into triangles for display. Nvil uses CPU/GPU for viewport via directX (If you go into "View-> Object shading-> Object Individual display" and select "Wireframe", you will see the underlying triangulation on the model/mesh.
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Think performance on the CPU should be worked on first, cuda and opencl dont work on all gpus.
For example 3DCoat including a few .exe - CPU and GPU. Also it's will can to do for NVil.
It is a combination of not being as optomized and that c# isn't as fast as c++ performance wise.
C# is not best choice for a heavy software. I hate this technology =). But - no c# -> no NVil
Can you be more specific as to what viewport performance issues you are having?
rubberDuck above wrote about it. I'm don't played with a big number of polygons. Now i'm subdivided my ex-ussr(not finished) car under 11000 poly and when i zooming -> a lags.
For me another is important: 100% cpu even if i just clicking on the viewport.
there are 3 of variants:
1. My PC is very very old - Athlon64 3000, 2.5 gb, 8600gt
2. A bug in NVil
3. the .NET technology.
OR 1+2+3 =)
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Now i'm subdivided my ex-ussr(not finished) car under 11000 poly and when i zooming -> a lags.
11000 polygons is not really a lot of polygons for a sub-d modeler.
1. My PC is very very old - Athlon64 3000, 2.5 gb, 8600gt
Unfortunately, we still do not know the minimal or recommended hardware for Nvil.
I do have a single core Athlon64 system boxed away. I will get it out at weekend and have look to see what Nvil is doing on that hardware.
What windows OS are you using?
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What windows OS are you using?
WinXP SP3
Now i'm subdivided my ex-ussr(not finished) car under 11000 poly and when i zooming -> a lags.
more precise:
a little lags when i zooming. When i rotating all OK.
I have a realy weak PC and I have no complaints :) I wrote it only for:
For me another is important: 100% cpu even if i just clicking on the viewport.
If there is a bug, fixing it can affect performance of NVil and on(to?) other PC.
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a little lags when i zooming. When i rotating all OK.
Which zoom function do you use?
Alt + RMB
MMW (wheel on mouse)
view window corner navigation option with RMB
or is it the same problem which ever zoom you use?
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Unfortunately, we still do not know the minimal or recommended hardware for Nvil.
I think that my PC / any Celeron -> minimal hardware =)
Which zoom function do you use?
I tested again (all the 3 of variants).
A little lags(when rotating also, but rarely/) happening when using CPU amount to 90-100%
Hm..Interesting that peak of CPU happening when i just moving a mouse under clear(empty) viewport (i created a new scene).
summary: The weak PC or bug in NVil.
---update---
1. Increased subdivide under 23500 poly
2. Maximized a "perspective viewport" - ok
3. Enabled a four viewport -> zooming in-> zooming out -> quick rotating (alt+LMB) ->a little lag
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It may be your GPU(Graphics card).
What % of your GPU is being used while rotating/zooming view?
(you can use MSI afterburner http://event.msi.com/vga/afterburner/download.htm to check).
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It may be your GPU(Graphics card).
What % of your GPU is being used while rotating/zooming view?
(you can use MSI afterburner http://event.msi.com/vga/afterburner/download.htm to check).
Thanks steve for idea. Recently i have a strange problems with video (using GPU for acceleration). I checked the videocard some a program. Tomorrow I will try the afterburner and will install a other drivers.
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I tested the my 8600GT in MSI Afterburner(Kombastor).
Results:
Max temp in Kombastor - 65C . Time of test - 45min.
Temp in NVIL - ~45C .
Max GPU load - 40% when rotate/zoom 93500 poly
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A new test -> new information:
(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/1833/myn4.png)
* Selected = my object is selected
No Selected = not selected
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The selected object or no, but a CPU always 95-98%
Maybe bug/no optimization in NVil when select a object?
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Hi molebox,
What .net framework do you have installed?
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Hi steve.
I have a .NET 1.1 , 3.5 SP1 , 4
offtop:
If I press "Quick Reply" on the forum then i get the error :
"Your web browser's request contained old or corrupted cookies..bla-bla ...and other malware. Then clear your cookies for the site you were visiting."
Return back in browser and press "Reply" under a message - all ok..
Do you have such problem?
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Do you have just 1 object in the scene? If you have more than one, have you tried turning off "View > Object Shading > Show Edge On Unselected"?
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Do you have just 1 object in the scene? If you have more than one, have you tried turning off "View > Object Shading > Show Edge On Unselected"?
Hi Vaquero.
I have one object in the scene - body of car (366 poly) which i subdivided as wrote above.
May be IStonia will read the thread.
Vaquero, I am satisfied with the performance of NVil. Just may be I help it to increase =)
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offtop:
If I press "Quick Reply" on the forum then i get the error :
"Your web browser's request contained old or corrupted cookies..bla-bla ...and other malware. Then clear your cookies for the site you were visiting."
Return back in browser and press "Reply" under a message - all ok..
Do you have such problem?
Hi molebox,
I have not seen that. I clear my browser cache each time I close it.
Which browser are you using, and do you clear your cache?
.
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I have a .NET 1.1 , 3.5 SP1 , 4
Thanks for all the info.
I set up on a:-
AMD64 3800+ (2.39)
2GB ram
(onboard) Radeon HD 4200
When switching between view rotate(alt+LMB) and Zoom(alt+RMB) I was seeing a delay of about 0.5 to 1 second before view would rotate or zoom. But once view was rotating or zooming there was no lag. Are you seeing similar?
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Which browser are you using, and do you clear your cache?
I use chrome. I was cleared the cookies, cache.
Try a next message to write with "Quick Reply".
I set up on a:-
AMD64 3800+ (2.39)
Where did you get such a rarity? ;D
When switching between view rotate(alt+LMB) and Zoom(alt+RMB) I was seeing a delay of about 0.5 to 1 second before view would rotate or zoom. But once view was rotating or zooming there was no lag. Are you seeing similar?
exactly! =)
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Testing quick reply.....
edit
working OK here.
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Clear a cache, cookies.
Now all is work ???
But..It is problem start after a some time. May be due to the fact what I checked checkbox "Always stay logged".
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I set up on a:-
AMD64 3800+ (2.39)
Where did you get such a rarity? ;D
I purchased it new many years ago. It was one of the top AMD CPU back then ;D
(I have 2 other AMD64 chips)
When switching between view rotate(alt+LMB) and Zoom(alt+RMB) I was seeing a delay of about 0.5 to 1 second before view would rotate or zoom. But once view was rotating or zooming there was no lag. Are you seeing similar?
exactly! =)
It looks like a bug.
I will send in a bug report and see what IStonia can find.
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It looks like a bug.
I will send in a bug report and see what IStonia can find.
such an bug is not noticeable on the your modern computer?
p.s. I am hate multi quotes here ::) I saw a addon for selective quotes (for SMF forum), but it's old.
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such an bug is not noticeable on the your modern computer?
If high number of polygons, yes.
I do not think there should be a lag in navigation just because an object is selected, not when there is no lag when no object selected. In such a situation, you are still only view-navigating the same number of polygons, so should be no difference.
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i.e. Have you a two bugs?
1. Lags between rotate and zoom.
2. difference of speed between selected object and not selected.
p.s. Thanks steve for discussion and help :) I go to sleep ;)
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Hi Molebox,
IStonia did get back to me. The delay is due to geometry position update for screen. So the slower the CPU the longer it takes. He did not say why the difference between selected and non-selected. I did ask again, but no reply to that as of yet.
Maybe he will answer in thread himself?
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Hi Molebox,
IStonia did get back to me. The delay is due to geometry position update for screen. So the slower the CPU the longer it takes. He did not say why the difference between selected and non-selected. I did ask again, but no reply to that as of yet.
Maybe he will answer in thread himself?
Could it be related to wireframe, I only see this problem when wireframe on shaded is turned off, so when something is selected it it is rendering more than non.
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I am not sure what Nvil is doing.
With a new empty scene, just moving the mouse cursor around in main viewport Nvil is using CPU (approx)40% and GPU (approx)30%. I have a quad core (i5 3570K), with Nvil setting to use only one CPU core, yet it is using almost 2 CPU cores and GPU 30% just to track mouse cursor, that is excessive.