New Backface and Selection Bugs

I'm testing out the 27Jan14 release today while waiting for my work files to render this afternoon.  I've run into some strange new bugs.

Backface Bug: (*Edit 30Jan14: This has been fixed in the 29Jan14 release*)
I (almost) always enable "Backface in Gray" and keep it set to a bright colour so I can quickly find flipped surfaces that will mess up my solid meshes, so this was an easy bug for me to spot.  I *also* generally DISABLE "Show Edge on Unselected" to keep my scene tidy when I'm not actively working on a mesh but still want it visible.  This bug only occurs when "Show Edge on Unselected" is disabled, at least from what I've been experienced so far.  Create a box primitive with 16 quads per side.  Everything looks normal.  Now, deselect the box and rotate the viewport around... any sides of the box that were previously facing away from the camera are now "shown in gray" as if they were flipped, even though they aren't.  This unwanted effect goes away as soon as the object is selected, so long as edges are visible.

Selection Bug: (*Edit 31Jan14: This has been *partially* fixed in the 30Jan14 release*)
I'm pretty sure some selection behaviour has changed in the past few days since I last used NVIL.  To reproduce these issues, first create a box primitive with 16 quads per sides, then select all the quads on the FRONT side of the box and FLIP them so that the backfaces are showing outward (as above, I have "Show Backface in Gray" enabled).

1.  Select the box and enter Polygon Subobject mode.  Hold X and try to LMB paint-select the flipped Front faces.  They can't be paint selected, unless you X-MMB paint select them, which means that you'll also be selecting the Rear faces of the box (because of raycast selection).  This behaviour is inconsistent with the Vertex and Edge subobject modes, where streamline selection tools can be used to LMB select the subobject components regardless of whether they are part of a backfacing polygon.

2.  Now here's where I'm experiencing the real oddness - while still in Polygon Suboject mode, try to X-LMB paint select the (non-flipped) LEFT, REAR, and BOTTOM facing polygons.  *They won't select*.  Now try the same again, but with the TOP and RIGHT (non-flipped) facing polygons.  I can select those polys just fine?  *The same problems occur* when I try the same experiments using Q-LMB lasso selection, or even standard Drag-LMB marquee selection.  The Redirect hotkey (default: Caps Lock) seems to have no effect on the situation.  So, yeah, there's definitely something broken here.

3.  The same experiment produces the same issues in the Edge and Vertex subobject selection modes.

4.  Here's a slightly different, but quick experiment.  Create a box primitive with 16 quads per sides.  Select the box and enter Polygon Subobject mode.  Rotate the viewport so that you are looking at the REAR-LEFT corner of the box.  Perform a Drag-LMB marquee selection over the *entire box*.  The polygons that you are looking at will not select.  However, the FRONT, TOP, and RIGHT facing polygons of the box (which are not facing the camera in this scenario) *will* become selected, as if I were using raycast selection rather than normal (*note* - these backfacing polys will not become selected with LMB streamline selection methods if "Back Face in Gray" is ENABLED).  Bug. 


*Update 1* - Very bizarre situation.  Experienced the same selection problems (as in case #4 above) with a cylinder and a sphere.  So about half of the polygons of a given primitive simply can't be selected with streamline tool LMB methods in this update.

*Update 2* - Still experimenting.  Usually I have View>ObjectShading>CullNone as my default cull settings.  If I switch to "Cull BackFacing", the LMB based streamline selection methods work as normal.  Of course, this mode is not one I want to use because I simply can't see any flipped polygons on a closed mesh.

*Update 3* - Problems #2,#3, and #4 don't occur if "Show Backface in Gray" is ENABLED and I toggle ON Subdivision.  But, of course, the Backface Bug mentioned at the top of this thread is still clearly visible under the circumstances described in that paragraph, regardless of subdivision.

About the backface bug. Pretty much the same thing happens in Shaded mode.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/1prpgfcrh8i417l/backfaceInGray_bug.mkv

I was checking again for the obj selection bug I see from time to time (unable to LMB select object in view-port) that I and other have mentioned before, that I am seeing again. While checking I am now see this problem where only certain polygons are being selected wile using default LMB+Drag window select. The Paint select(X+LMB) is also not working correctly.
I currently have "Show Edges on selected" enabled and "Back face in grey" disabled.

Please check if they are fixed.

It is now more of a problem on my setup.

(using a new config)
Create a default Box in new scene. Polygon select > LMB+Drag over box, it will select the polygons in view. Rotate viewport to back of box, LMB+Drag over box, it will not select the polygons on that side of the box.

To Add:-
This appears to only be a problem with default primitive's. If for example, I extrude a face on the default Box, then LMB+drag selection works correctly from any view angle.

It is now more of a problem on my setup.

(using a new config)
Create a default Box in new scene. Polygon select > LMB+Drag over box, it will select the polygons in view. Rotate viewport to back of box, LMB+Drag over box, it will not select the polygons on that side of the box.

That is exactly what I was experiencing in the Jan 27 and 28 updates.  Just downloaded Jan 29, so will try it again in a moment.  After quite a bit of experimentation, it only seemed to happen to me with generated Primitives.  If I create my own geometry, I have not experienced this particular selection issue.

Edit 1: The selection bug is still happening in the Jan 29 release.

Edit 2: The backface bug, to the best of my awareness, has been fixed in the Jan 29 release - placed note in the original post to reflect this.

it only seemed to happen to me with generated Primitives.

What polygons can be selection is also based on what view the primitive was created in.

For example. Go into top view and create a box. Go back into perspective view > polygon select > LMB+drag over Box, only the top polygons can be selected from any view angle.

Fixed.

Fixed.

Looks like we've got a new related bug now in the 30Jan14 release.  Create a primitive cube and MMB-drag over it in Polygon Subtool Mode.  Normally, the raycast drag selection should select every polygon face, but the raycasting isn't working with drag selection now.  However, if I use "Q" MMB lasso selection, or "X" MMB paint selection it works as it should.

I am seeing the same new problem.

Check again.

I am getting a new backfacing selection bug in the 05 Feb 2014 release.  If I attempt to LMB-drag (or Q-LMB lasso or X-LMB paint) select over backfacing polygons, the selection is raycast *through* the backfacing facing polys and polygons are selected from behind the backfacing polygon.... even if those polygons are, themselves, backfacing to the camera.  I've attached a scene that demonstrates this behaviour.

 

I have seen selection problems for a while, mainly with the MMB+Drag (paint select), but have never been able to find a repeatable example. Usually, I would be working on a model, MMB+Drag select, then inset (various sets of selected polygons), only later to find random polygons had been inset.(very irritating). I tend to have to visually check around the model after MMB+Drag selection to ensure only what I intentionally selected is actually selected.

Various problems like this (including the stepping distance problem I posted), have ensured that after over 18 months of my using voidworld/Nvil, I have still not been able to get a good workflow.

I am getting a new backfacing selection bug in the 05 Feb 2014 release.  If I attempt to LMB-drag (or Q-LMB lasso or X-LMB paint) select over backfacing polygons, the selection is raycast *through* the backfacing facing polys and polygons are selected from behind the backfacing polygon.... even if those polygons are, themselves, backfacing to the camera.  I've attached a scene that demonstrates this behaviour.

I tried your scene, I can see those front facing polygons behind the back facing polygons get selected. That means the back facing polygons do not occlude the selection. My question is which one is your expected selection.

A. Because those front facing polygons are hidden behind, so no selection can be made.
B. Those back facing polygons will be selected instead those front facing polygons behind.
 

I have seen selection problems for a while, mainly with the MMB+Drag (paint select), but have never been able to find a repeatable example. Usually, I would be working on a model, MMB+Drag select, then inset (various sets of selected polygons), only later to find random polygons had been inset.(very irritating). I tend to have to visually check around the model after MMB+Drag selection to ensure only what I intentionally selected is actually selected.

Various problems like this (including the stepping distance problem I posted), have ensured that after over 18 months of my using voidworld/Nvil, I have still not been able to get a good workflow.

I think the problem occurs in paint selection is when the cursor is over an edge and the program does not handle that properly so that results in selection leak. I will see if I can improve it.

My question is which one is your expected selection.

A. Because those front facing polygons are hidden behind, so no selection can be made.
B. Those back facing polygons will be selected instead those front facing polygons behind.
 

A.  By the way NVil CURRENTLY works, I would believe *this* to be the expected behaviour.
B.  To be honest, this is the behaviour I would prefer, but perhaps there is a reason I'm not anticipating why this isn't already the current default behaviour?  Because, as of right now, if I want to select a group of polygons with flipped normals, I only have 2 options: 1.) left-click every single face individually with the include-selection modifier held down or 2.) MMB-paint drag over each individual face.  This can be a bit tedious.  If I MMB-Box Select or MMB-paint select, then raycasting selection is enabled and that is usually not a desired behaviour when I am trying to select of group of backfacing polys directly in front of the camera, but not wanting to select polygons on the other side of the mesh.  So, yes, I personally would find it preferable that all LMB selection methods, whether LMB-direct, LMB-box/lasso select, or LMB-Paint select, always select polygons which are facing the camera, whether or not the normals are flipped, but that occluded polygons are definitely not selected in the process.