My list of gripes, workflow issues, etc.

I thought I'd make a list of stuff I find either strange, annoying, broken, or just in need of optimization here.

1.  As I mentioned before, I don't understand why it takes so many clicks or key presses to make an object using the numeric input.  I understand for visual people you want to click where the object should appear, but the software should be smart enough to know that the moment I start typing in values, I want to see the object and it should appear at 0,0,0.  That way, the create button is the final confirmation and no more clicking is needed.

2.  When selecting multiple edge loops there is a bug.  Create a cylinder with multiple caps (no idea why they're named caps - makes no sense to me).  Double click on an edge loop on the cap.  Now, shift-double click another loop to add it to your selection.  It creates a loop but it de-selects the edge you were clicking on.

3.  Display mode.  I wish there was a display mode where, if the object was de-selected it was solid, but if it was selected it was solid, plus wires. 

4.  This may just be user error or an RTFM moment, but I can't seem to find a way to set up the keypad + and - keys to increase and decrease the sub-d level.  I want to start off with my model normal, hit + and get sub-d level 1, hit it again and go to level 2, etc.  Then - takes it back down a level until it's not subdivided anymore.

5.  The preview button on chamfer doesn't seem to show you how many segments you'll get, it just shows a basic chamfer.  Also, overall with the preview button I don't understand why it exists.  Again, as soon as I start typing in numeric values it should just show them to me and be "live" until I hit "Apply".  There's no need for a preview button at all.

6.  Staying with the theory of optimizing things.  Apply and Create should both be renamed "Accept".  Keeping things simplified will be a big plus.

I'm sure I'll find more stuff as I go. 

Please don't take these the wrong way.  I think this is a very slick package and it has a lot going for it.  I'm looking at it as the person who has just picked it up, doesn't know any of the shortcut keys and therefore will be using mostly the mouse and menus.

Thanks!

Paul
 

hey paulrus,  I can understand a few of your frustrations (no app is perfect, least of all VoidWorld as it's still being developed)

I might be able alleviate a few of your gripes though:

1.  You can just press q on your keyboard to place a box or plane etc.  You can turn on grid snapping so that it snaps to 0,0,0.
or alternatively...
Assign Create Primitive Box, Plane, Cylinder to F1, F2, F3 respectively.  That way it will create a primitive using the last settings from the visual tools.  I just leave them at default and they're created at 0,0,0.  bosh, 1-click primitives.

2. As far as I recall someone from the Polycount forum had this same problem,  Beatkitano maybe?  It was a problem with updating to a later release but not resetting the hotkey style or something.  Try this:  Edit > Options > Reset hotkey Style.

3.  Agreed.

4. Hold down END on keyboard.  Then navigate to Geometry > Subdivision > Increase Subdivision.
The Customize Tools dialogue should pop open with Inc/Dec Subdivision highlighted.  you can then Set keypad +/- to these functions.  At least.. that's how I set it up.

5.  Agreed.

6.  Agreed.

2. I came across that bug too in the past, what i did for a workaround, is change the selection keys.

that happens because shift+select is toggle section, what i did was go into the key editor, and made shift+select Include selection, and Control+Select Exclude selection. This works around the edge getting deselected with a double click, and overall i find it more useful to not have a toggle selection and just include and Exclude selections.

3. That would be a cool feature, and maybe add the option to have it depending on sub-object mode too, so in object mode there is no wires, and in vert, edge or face, there is wires.

4. There are increase and Decrease Subdivions commands, and i was able to bind them to - and = they are found in the common modeling shortcut tools section of the customize tools window.

Do you use any of the streamline tools, it looks like your using mostly visual tools, when the app is really based around the use and customization of it;s more powerful, and interactive streamline tools.

1.  You can just press q on your keyboard to place a box or plane etc.  You can turn on grid snapping so that it snaps to 0,0,0.
or alternatively...

Well, that's not exactly what I was talking about.  That's still way too many steps for something as simple as creating a primitive numerically.  I don't want to have to click anywhere other than on the box button to create a box.

If I want to create a primitive without clicking anywhere, it really should be a matter of clicking the box button, typing in the values, and hitting create.  That's it.

I totally understand VW is really fluid for people who like to click and visually create things with the mouse, I'm just making suggestions from the viewpoint of someone wants precise values for things rather than just eyeballing what looks good. (there's nothing wrong with eyeballing, I'm just saying some people may need very precise settings and it's a lot faster to have an object appear exactly where you want with the exact dimensions you want)

Thanks!

Paul

Do you use any of the streamline tools, it looks like your using mostly visual tools, when the app is really based around the use and customization of it;s more powerful, and interactive streamline tools.

I still don't understand what visual tools and streamline even mean.  I read the docs and all I I see is that a Streamline Tool is a package that can hold basic Streamline Tools.  So, the docs don't really explain it very well.

Does that mean there are 2 totally separate chamfer commands or extrude commands, etc?  If that's the case, why on earth do things that way?  Why wouldn't you just have 1 set of commands that can be accessed by either the mouse or by a hotkey?

Or, are Streamline tools more like macros?

I guess the nomenclature is just very confusing.

Paul
   

 

Paul, thanks for the input!

In visual tools, you can select options, input custom values etc. So visual tools have more capabilitis.

Streamline tools are more for fast work flow. They do very simple operation. You press down hotkey, move the mouse then release key.This is the way to pick the tool, do the operation then drop the tool. So you can move from tool to tool quickly.
For example, to extude a polygon.
1.Move cursor over a polygon to highlight it.
2.Press down A key to activate the extrude tool. If you don't use the default hotkey settings, it may not be A key.
3.Move the mouse to extrude.
4.Release A key to confirm or right click to cancel.

There are lots options to create primitives. The reason why is people need different ways to create objects under different circumstances. You need to read the doc. While Box tool is opened, Help > Show Help On Current Operation. I am currently imprementing the Enter key improvement so it can apply the current modified field value and move into the next field at the same time.

I see.

So Streamline is somewhat similar to sticky keys in Softimage.  Basically in Softimage if I hold a key down, it will activate that hotkey for as long as I have it held, but when I release it it's no longer active.  However, if I tap the same key, the tool becomes permanently active until I hit escape.

That reminds me of another issue I see.  Getting out of tools seems to be inconsistent.  Sometimes hitting esc will do it, sometimes hitting Q will do it, and sometimes clicking with the mouse will do it.  It can frustrate me because if I'm in edge mode and I'm moving an edge around, then I hit esc, it doesn't do anything.  But nearly every package I've used has this convention - esc means drop the tool and keep the current object selected, enter means accept the value of whatever tool you're using, and so on.

With creating objects numerically, even simplifying whatever needs to happen to make the object would be great.  Right now, I just tried again - click box, type in values, hit create.... then what?  I try to hit Enter and I get an error "beep", I try hitting Q and I get an error "beep"... I then click on the cube, and nothing happens.  Finally I realize I have to first select one of the quad windows, then hit enter. 

Here's another tweak that slightly slows down things.  Create an object, go into edge mode and select an edge.  Now, click the object select icon in Visual tools and try to delete the object.  It won't work.  You instead have to re-select one of the quad windows first, then hit delete.

Basically it looks like the Visual Tools window and the quad display windows aren't connected to each other and don't communicate.  So if you've clicked the Visual Tools window, nothing can be done to any objects at all until you click back into one of your 4 windows where the object sits.  I think it's important that objects stay "live" as long as you're within VW.

Sorry, if all these sound unhappy or negative.  I don't mean it that way at all.  It's a very cool application and I think it's going to do really well.  I just figure I should speak up if I see something a Softimage user might find unusual or difficult.

Thanks!

Paul

ya the streamline tools are inspired bu sticky keys of XSI and Silo, with some improvements, such as combeing that with mouse keys to get more functions on 1 key.

good example is the loop_cut tool, holding it;s key will give you the loop_cut preview, press lbm places the edge loop where seen in the preview, mmb places it directly in the middle of the edges it;s cutting, and in my case rmb lets me drag out too edge loops at once from the center.

some things happens with the inset tool, just holding the key gives a inset, holding and using with rmb, gives a inset extrude.

some of them take number input too, like with the bevel stream line, if you tap a number before the operation is complete it will set the amount of segments.

the really nice thing with these tools over sticky keys, is hte user can create there own, and choose what context things work under, and what it will do for each interaction.

Streamline tool is like "quickextrude" (former quickinset) tool Piotrek created for Softimage a while ago. Basically there is more flexibility with using your mouse buttons/wheel and assigning them different operations. You have that in "split edge" in XSI I think, where middle mouse button connects parallel edges, right. It's neat once you get it set up. You can have extrude normal/extrude with orienting and inset set on one key, and 3 mouse buttons. That way you can combine similar tools in one shortcut.I put "smooth" and "relax" on S key and wheel up /down.Silo has similar customization. It's powerful.