NVil Forum
General Category => Feature Requests => Topic started by: samardac on December 16, 2015, 03:27:39 pm
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Hay IStonia,
Have one request that I wanted ask you for a very long time, but only now I managed to explain it.
It works this way: If you drag object/sub-object it will work like Plane_Move.
So if you are in vertex mode and drag vertex it will Plane_Move this vertex.
The same thing with all mods Object, polygons etc...
You can select multiple objects/sub-objects and move them this way. If you press Shift during dragging it will work like Axis_Move.
Now if you drag object/sub-object it works like Square Selection(or what ever it set to). So we can handle it this way:
If you drag in empty space it will work like Square Selection (it is how it now) but to enable Square selection when you drug object/sub-object you have to press Shift+Ctrl.
This way it works now in MoI and it is super great, I used it for years!
I think it is absolutely suit NVil philosophy - streamline workflow. Now to move something you have to use manipulator or press hotkey. With this feature you are just drag. Moving is the most used operation so it have to be the most accessible tool!
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Hay istonia just let me know if it is possible. I working now on new config and want to plane my ui and other stuff.
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http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Dec-18-15.rar
I Added these two features
* "Set as Viewport StreamLine Tool" is added to streamline tool editor. Edit > Customize > StreamLine Tools. A viewport streamline tool can be activated by mouse button only without hotkey. I works if there is selection in scene or there is object under cursor.
* Edit > Customize > Tools > Common Modeling Shortcut Tools > Replace Selection. This an addition tool to the existing tools, Exclude/Include/Toggle Selection. In your this particular workflow case, this tool can be useful. If you don't use the Toggle Selection, you can replace it with Replace Selection by swapping hotkeys.
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Hay IStonia, it is awaysome and it works!!!
But we have to make some more steps to make it perfect!
When I started to use this tool I faced really big problem that I wanted to fix for a very long time and I think the time is come ;D
This problem confuse me everytime when I wanted to use stream line tools as UI buttons.
So if you press UI Button for example with streamline tool - Extrude and select a couple of polygons to extrude, extrude them and after that you decide to extrude another polygons you click on that new polygons to select them but instead of it extrusion repeats last step. So you have manually deselect polygons and then select new. I thing it is very, very confused workflow. I consider my self advanced NVil user but this thing confuse even me. The same problem have and Viewport Streamline tool!
So this is what I suggest:
1. Now if streamline tool is running and you did something with it and then you left click on object it will repeat last step.
But we have to replace this action with - Replace Selection tool. (it will allow us select new subobject for further work with this streamline tool)
2. Repeat last step we have to set to Double left click instead.
3. Replace Selection have to deselect everything if you click in empty space.
And if you click and drug object or subobject without selection it will clear previous selection and work like if you apply streamline tool without selection.
So it will allow us to use Viewport Stream Line tool and Button streamline tool in absolutely logic way!
I'm so waiting this update, as I said to you I create new UI for using with MoI and all my buttons are set to streamline tools and current behavior will be so confused for new users. And now this new viewport tool, it practically can not work in intuitive way without this update.
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I just continue to experiment and think that double left mouse click is better leave for select all subobjects.
But for repeat last step for stream line tool is better to use double middle click.
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1. Now if streamline tool is running and you did something with it and then you left click on object it will repeat last step.
But we have to replace this action with - Replace Selection tool. (it will allow us select new subobject for further work with this streamline tool)
2. Repeat last step we have to set to Double left click instead.
Not possible. If you use first click to clear selection, the second click of the double click would be useless as the selection has been lost in the first click. Also double click is not reliable due to performance.
3. Replace Selection have to deselect everything if you click in empty space.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Dec-19-15.rar
And if you click and drug object or subobject without selection it will clear previous selection and work like if you apply streamline tool without selection.
Since you do an action without selection, so there is no selection to clear.
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Not possible. If you use first click to clear selection, the second click of the double click would be useless as the selection has been lost in the first click. Also double click is not reliable due to performance.
Can you make pleas option for me to experiment without any Repeat last step command just Replace selection on left click?
Something like Preference -> Options -> Swap Repeat last step with Replace selection.
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http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Dec-20-15.rar
Edit > Preference > Options > Swap REPEAT LAST STEP with REPLACE SELECTION on basic streamline tool.
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Hay IStonia, I just tested this new feature and it works great on some tools and does not work on another, it's just repeat last step.
For example it works with inset and chamfer and does not works with extrude, move_plane, slide... I do not tested it with all tools.
I just used it a bit with inset and chamfer and it is really awaysome feature.
Check this video:
http://take.ms/Rtt6x
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http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Dec-21-15.rar
* On mouse up without action event.
For some streamline basic tools like extrude/chamfer/move..., if the tool is activated by pressing down a mouse button, and then the mouse button is released without dragging to perform the operation, the "On mouse up without action event" will be fired. By default, this event is used to perform an operation base on the the activated bool's last operation.
There is a global option, Edit > Preference > Options > Swap REPEAT LAST STEP with REPLACE SELECTION on basic streamline tool. It is used to let this event do selection instead. The advantage of this is selection can be modified without dropping the current tool. If this option is on, REPEAT LAST STEP can still be performed if Redirect Modifier Key (default: Caps Lock) is pressed before releasing the mouse button.
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Got everything! Works greate!
selection can be modified without dropping the current tool
It is so AMAIZING!!! ;D
Now you have so much freedom to move objects without pressing any key using viewport S.L. tool! And buttons with streamline tools also works awaysome!
Some little bugs and suggestions:
1. Now if you click in empty space to deselect everything it does not work if SL. tool is on, It works perfect when you run - Replace selection command separately. So for example if I press Extrude button, made some extrude and want to drop selection by clicking in empty space it does not work.
2. Now you can not make Select square or lasso if you try select something when you are on object and SL tool is on. It starts to perform dragging(SL tool starts to work). Can you pleas modify this selection tool this way - if you Shift+Ctrl being above object it will perform Square/Lasso selection. (It is how it works in MoI)
3. Can you pleas deactivate Caps Lock when you use it as shortcut for running tools or Redirect Modifier Key? I mean it always enables when you press it. We need it to only fire commands without enabling Caps Lock.
4. Can you pleas modify Plane_Move so if you press and hold Shift it will work like Axis_Move?
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http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Dec-22-15.rar
1. fixed.
2. Too complicated.
3. Done.
4. Before dragging, press down Caps Lock key.
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Many thanks!
IStonia, Looks like you confused things a bit :)
Now selection with Rectangle is working, when you press Caps Lock. But it only works with Plane_Move.
Can you make it works globally with all SL tools? And also pleas make it Ctrl+Shift instead of Caps Lock.
You meant - it is to complicated to make Plane_Move to work like Axis_Move when you press shift?
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My previous post is my solutions 1 by 1 according to your post before my post.
I found it's hard to understand your words. Please sort your words according to that order. Something like this.
1. solved.
2. not solved. detail the issues...
3. solved.
4. solved.
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1. Solved!
2. Solved partially.
Now selection with Rectangle is working, when you press Caps Lock, works exactly as I asked. But it only works with Plane_Move. Can you make it works globally with all SL tools? And also pleas make it Ctrl+Shift instead of Caps Lock.
3. Solved!
4. Not Solved.
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2. I actually didn't do any thing for this at all. Can you explain more why it is partially solved?
4. What is the problem? 1)You press down the Plane_Move tool's mouse button to activated it. 2)Before you drag to perform moving, press down Caps Lock key to let the tool change to behavior like Axis_Move. 3) Drag to perform moving and it should be Axis_Move instead of Plane_Move.
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Now everything is clear for me! Some misunderstanding happened!
2. If you set Move_Plane as Viewport SL tool and press Caps Lock it will allow you make square selection exactly as I requested. But it works only when it set to Viewport tool. So I discovered it and thought you made it as my request. Funny situation.
Looks like this request need tricky explanation but at the same time it is very simple. So I spent a bit time to explain it correctly.
So when we use Style Selection (Square, Lasso etc...) we have these ways to select with it:
When StreamLine tool is OFF.
a) LMB - Replace Selection.
b) LMB + SHIFT - Include selection.
c) LMB + Ctrl - Exclude selection.
When StreamLine tool is ON.
a) NOT AVAILABLE!
b) LMB + SHIFT - Include selection.
c) LMB + CTRL - Exclude selection.
So my request is: Pleas add - Replace Selection when SL tool is ON. To run it we will use LMB+CTRL+SHIFT.
So it have to look like this:
When StreamLine tool is ON.
a) LMB + SHIFT + CTRL - Replace Selection.
b) LMB + SHIFT - Include selection.
c) LMB + CTRL - Exclude selection.
Also I created video, check it:
http://take.ms/z3PA8
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4. Oh... Yes it works, my fault... I just found how to run it. Sorry, it looks like it is to complicated process to fire it. I expected it to work whenever you press caps lock.
In ideal it have to work everytime you press caps lock, no meter before or during dragging. You just press and hold Caps Lock and it immediately switches from Plane move to Axis move and stay Axis till you keep Caps Lock pressed. Looks like this behavior is standard for graphic application, also it is standard to use Shift instead of Caps Lock, can you pleas change it.
I made this video to show you how it works, check it:
http://take.ms/Qcndc
Many thanks!
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http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Dec-23-15.rar
2. It should work if the streamline tool is activated by a button instead of hotkey. For Replace selection, you can either release Shift/Ctrl before releasing mouse button or bind Replace selection to Shift+Ctrl.
4. See if it works.
Also
Edit > Options > Viewport StreamLine Tool Enabled.
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2. Works great! Make it pleas work not only with buttons but also with Viewport SL tool.
4. Works but:
- if you moved subobject than press Caps Lock it jumps to start position.
- I used it with vieport SL tool and if you press Caps Lock before move it does not work.
- Also it works with capslock not with shift.
IStonia if this request is too complex, roll it back how it was without Caps Lock. It is not very critical request, we can use RMB to Axis_Move I just wanted to make it as standard behavior so new users will get used to it faster.
PS
I now use Plane_Move and Move_Axis as vieport SL tool and it is awaysome. It will be the default behavior in all my configs.
Vieport SL tool is really great update!
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2. It should work on viewport streamline tool because it is not activated by hotkey.
3. That's pretty much the best I can do. It is not a good idea to use Shift key because people may use Shift key as a streamline tool hotkey which may cause problem.
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2. I tried once again and can not make it work, check this video:
http://take.ms/bgcd4
4. Good!
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2. I works on my side. I tried to see what is your viewport streamline tool in the clip but it seemed to be a mess. Have a look at the clip, you can see you have "Grow/Shrink Ring {Ctrl Shift}". What is that?
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2. Many thanks!!! I had Grow/Shrink Ring assigned to Ctrl+Shift did not noticed it!
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4. Works but:
- if you moved subobject than press Caps Lock it jumps to start position.
- I used it with vieport SL tool and if you press Caps Lock before move it does not work.
Fixed.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Dec-24-15.rar
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Wow, greate!!
So lets finish it as it should be, lets make it work with Shift, it is all about it!
It is not a good idea to use Shift key because people may use Shift key as a streamline tool hotkey which may cause problem.
Yep but this feature is mainly for Move_Plane when you use it as viewport tool or in button. So I think it will be better to duplicate Move_Plane and rename it to "Move_Plane for Vieport/Button". And in description write that it use shift to aware users.
I just spend some time trying to understand how to implement it. Now if we press shift and start drag it work like style selection and it is how it should be, so there is only one way to use shift, it is press shift when you already dragging. It is how it works when you set Stepping enabled toggle key to SHIFT.
It has to work the same way.
In MoI there is no way to move subobjects so you can press shift before drugining and it will select and move full oject in all cases instead of creating style selection for subobjects.
Summary:
1. Create new tool "Move_Plane for Vieport/Buttons". And leave previous Move_Plane unattached to not confuse users.
2. Press shift only when you start to dragging to avoid Style Selection.
I think it have to work very good!
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The file renewed.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Dec-24-15.rar
I made it also work with Ctrl key. But you need to press mouse button before pressing Ctrl key.
Can't use Shift key, because it has been bound to Step Move.
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File renewed again.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Dec-24-15.rar
Now it works with Caps-Lock/Shift/Ctrl. You may need to change the stepping hotkey from Shift to Ctrl, Edit > Customize > Modeling Options > Stepping Enabled Toggle Key.
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Hay IStonia, absolutely awaysome solution!
But I can not make it work with shift.
1. I set Stepping to Ctrl and Shift does not Axis_move only caps lock.
2. I disabled stepping at all and get this error message when want to move with Shift or Ctrl:
3. Also when I releas Capslock it have to back to Plane_move
(https://monosnap.com/file/gfH9axw0c3hFKuk4iMLsLDrPwiLxWC.png)
See the end of this message for details on invoking
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IStonnia I have and idea, why not to make tool: Temporally switch to Axis_Move.
And it will work exactly like - Stepping Enabled Toggle Key(I mean you can set hotkey to it). So we will be able to set shortcut to it for example Shift or Caps or Ctrl or whatever we want, so user will decide witch keys to use for these.
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http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Dec-24-15.rar
* Edit > Customize > Tools > Modeling Options > Plan/Axis Move Toggle Key.
It doesn't work on Caps Lock key in my PC. Maybe my keyboard or system. But it works on other keys include Shift.
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Works great!
And I think last step, we have to make Plan/Axis Move Toggle Key works only during key is pressed, you press it works, you release it stop to work. Exactly Like Stepping Enabled Toggle Key is working now.
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It works witch Caps Lock too, looks like something with your system.
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Works great!
And I think last step, we have to make Plan/Axis Move Toggle Key works only during key is pressed, you press it works, you release it stop to work. Exactly Like Stepping Enabled Toggle Key is working now.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Dec-24-15.rar
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1. I just notice that if you run Plan/Axis Move Toggle, it not move according to the start coordinates.
Let me explain, for example you have object at X=0, Y=0, Z=0.
You start to move it and in position X=20 and a Y=5 you run Plan/Axis Move Toggle.
From this moment it will move object only in X axes where Y=5.
It is snot correct movement it has to be: move object only in X axes where Y=Initial state when you start to move object and it was Y=0.
I created video to show you, if something is not clear let me know I'll create new explanation:
http://take.ms/dXatK
2. I have some additions,
If you check Swap REPEAT LAST STEP with REPLACE SELECTION, Style Selection - Replace selection and Paint Selection - Replace selection must be activated only by using (Ctrl+Shift).
Because now when SL is off you can make that selections without Ctrl+Shift but when SL tool is On you can make it only with Ctrl+Shift.
We have to eliminate it to have only one shortcut for these operations and it has to be - Ctrl+Shift.
I just was confused very much because of it, trying to understand what shortcuts to use for it.
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1.http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Dec-24-15.rar
2.Why force to use Ctrl+Shift for Replace selection? What is your current assigning for Ctrl+Shift? If Ctrl+Shift has two different meanings, it may cause confusing. I have two solutions. 1> Release selection hotkey after you have pressed mouse button and do the selection as normal. The program will treat it as Replace selection as there is no selection key being pressed. 2> Rearrange your selection hotkey assigning to something like this, Shift=Replace, Shift+Ctrl=Include, Ctrl=Exclude.
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When we introduce REPEAT LAST STEP with REPLACE SELECTION, it starts to conflict with some default selection actions that use drag because drag now reserved for SL tool to activate it. Now it so confused, even I started to confuse when start to work yesterday. We have to unify all that selection behavior to adapt to new circumstance.
Now it looks like this:
Replace Selection:
When SL tool is On - Left Click
When SL tool is Off - Left click
Replace Style selection:
When SL tool is On - Ctrl+Shift+Left mouse Drag
When SL tool is Off - Left Drag
Replace Paint selection:
When SL tool is On - Does not work.
When SL tool is Off - Middle mouse drag
But to unify that shortcuts and make everything clear it has to look like this:
Replace Selection:
When SL tool is On - Left Click
When SL tool is Off - Left click
Replace Style selection:
When SL tool is On - Ctrl+Shift+Left mouse Drag
When SL tool is Off - Ctrl+Shift+Left mouse Drag
Replace Paint selection:
When SL tool is On - Ctrl+Shift+Middle mouse Drag
When SL tool is Off - Ctrl+Shift+Moddle mouse Drag
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As what I said in my previous post, I don't want to force people to use hard coded hotkey.
Can you answer my questions about problem 2. What is your opinion on my solutions?
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1> Release selection hotkey after you have pressed mouse button and do the selection as normal.
Can you explain it more detail, I'm not sure I understood.
2> Rearrange your selection hotkey assigning to something like this, Shift=Replace, Shift+Ctrl=Include, Ctrl=Exclude.
How it has to work? looks like it is the same hotkeys but with different actions.
Anyway -
Replace Paint selection:
When SL tool is On - Does not work.
Have to be fixed.
You know yesterday I discovered new paradigm of work. For this you have to enable - Allow tapped to stay live.
Now you can select in all SL tools, so the only thing you have to make is just surf through SL toools and do you work.
For example it looks like this:
1. You fired Move SL tool, select something and move,
2. Than you fire Extrude SL tool select what you want to extrude than extrude it, than you select something else
3. And run Move again than move it,
4. Than you run Inset select something and Inset it
5. Etc..
As you can see no meter where you made selection you just reassign mouse Buttons for different actions but all selection tools stay the same. It works awaysome with buttons and no need to drop any tools, just surf through them.
I tested this workflow it is so simple and smooth. And what is the best thing about it is so simple to understand and explain.
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Maybe We are not looking at the same problem so we can't understand each other.
To my understanding, the problem is:
"When streamline tool is on, you can't do Replace selection. Because Replace selection can only be done when there is no selection key is being pressed by default.
When a streamline tool is on, to do selecting, you MUST press any selection key to let the streamline tool know that you are going to do selection so it will allow you to do it. But Once press any selection key, you can't do Replace selection any more if you don't have any hotkey assigned to Replace selection."
If I am wrong please let me know. It is important to make sure we are looking at the same problem.
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Here are the solutions I proposed before
1.http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Dec-24-15.rar
2....I have two solutions. 1> Release selection hotkey after you have pressed mouse button and do the selection as normal. The program will treat it as Replace selection as there is no selection key being pressed. 2> Rearrange your selection hotkey assigning to something like this, Shift=Replace, Shift+Ctrl=Include, Ctrl=Exclude.
I will explain more.
Solution 1> When a streamline tool is on, press any your selection hotkey like Ctrl or Ctrl+Shift. Press the mouse button. The streamline tool knows you are going to do selecting because you have pressed down selection hotkey and it will allow you to do selecting as long as you keep the mouse button pressed. Now you can release selection hotkey or change your selection hotkey, then drag to make your selection. The program will perform Replace/Include/Exclude/Toggle selection according to the hotkey being pressed, if no hot key is pressed it will be Replace. Release mouse button and selection is done.
Solution 2> As you can see Replace selection is assigned to Shift. So if you press Shift you can do Replace selecting while a streamline tool is on.
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Hay IStonia,
I'm so tired I am working on this new config day and night for a couple of weeks and some times I do not notice simple things :'(
I thought all that Include, Exclude and Replace selection was hard coded. But I just notice that we have commands for them so I set Replace selection to Ctrl+Shift and everything starts to work like a charm.
I would like to ask you for one setting: Selections works as if SL tool is ON.
So even if SL tool is off all selection works like it is ON. I need it to make only one way to make selections especially Replace selection, because now if SL tool is Off you can make Style Replace Selection or Paint replace selection without shortcut just with Left drag I do not need it.
Many thanks and sorry if I confused you!!
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It will be better to make Option >> Viewport tool is always on.
So if you drop any SL tool View port tool will be enabled or when you start NVil this tool will be ON by default and it will allow to make selection only when SL tool is ON.
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So you chose solution 2 instead of 1. Can you explain why?
I would like to ask you for one setting: Selections works as if SL tool is ON.
So even if SL tool is off all selection works like it is ON. I need it to make only one way to make selections especially Replace selection, because now if SL tool is Off you can make Style Replace Selection or Paint replace selection without shortcut just with Left drag I do not need it.
Many thanks and sorry if I confused you!!
For what reason you want this behavior?
It will be better to make Option >> Viewport tool is always on.
So if you drop any SL tool View port tool will be enabled or when you start NVil this tool will be ON by default and it will allow to make selection only when SL tool is ON.
What is viewport tool?
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Btw, It's xmas eve here. So
Merry Christmas!
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So you chose solution 2 instead of 1. Can you explain why?
Because it is so simple and intuitive! I set Ctrl + Shift to work as Replace Selection and it works!! So it is enough for me:)
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What is viewport tool?
I mean Viewport StreamLine tool :)
I just created new explanation about Option >> Viewport StreamLine tool is always on.
This option will keep enabled Viewport StreamLine everytime you drop SL tools or Start NVil.
Now when NVil is starts or if you drop SL tool Viewport SL tool is off and to enable it you have to select something.
So why we need it:
1. I have this nice buttons and want that Move button will be checked/highlighted every time when Viewport SL tool is active. Now this button is not highlited When NVil starts or if you drop any SL Tool.
(https://monosnap.com/file/uSghn8LWqZ93lKnlDhakWu6GeMxmsg.png)
2. I have Tweak Multy-Selection On. But this feature is off when you start NVil or drop any SL Tool.
3. It will allow to have only one way to make Style/Paint Replace Selection only with Hotkey. Now if SL tool is off you can make it with simple drag.
Merry Christmas IStonia!! :)
Where are you live?
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To make viewport streamline tool always on needs a lot of related code changes and it can potentially make the program buggy. I just let the viewport streamline tool's name shown on the viewport so it looks like it is on. You can still click in empty space to do selection drag without pressing selection hotkey. Why not? its handy.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Dec-24-15.rar
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Good looks like mission completed!!!
It was the hardest request ever!
Many thanks!!!
(https://monosnap.com/file/fvMDw9Zm8nWIoF5EjiHuF55OgEiTUZ.png)
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Merry Christmas IStonia!! :)
Where are you live?
I live in a small country at the bottom of the world, New Zealand. What about you?
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I leave also in small country but in center of Europe, in Moldova. We have big time difference now in your country 12:50 (Day) but in my 01:50 (night).