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Topic: Where are the tutorials  (Read 11553 times)

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December 13, 2013, 03:45:06 pm
Presently use Wings3D and Hexagon to create models for my Vue Complete scenes and renders and I'm surprised to see no tutorials to introduce Nvil noobs to this modeler...

Thanks kindly...

Ken

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December 16, 2013, 02:32:58 pm
Anyone?

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December 16, 2013, 07:57:37 pm
Hi Kenmo.  At the present time, you'll probably find that you need to just do a lot of hunting through these forums to find what you are looking for (look for posts by Steve, Passerby, and RubberDuck in particular (many other useful posters as well)).  First, however, make sure you check out the NVIL help documentation in the app.  It doesn't include everything, by a long shot, but a lot of the most important stuff is there.  If you look up NVIL tutorials on youtube, there are a few short, very basic videos which may or may not be useful (they're silent since the creators, it appears, do not speak English as a primary language).  Tutorials are very much in short supply at this point, but SubD modelling skills that you learn in other softwares can be carried over easily.  Additionally, feel free to ask questions here - I've done so and found that someone is always pretty quick to respond.  In my personal opinion, I too would love to watch more tutorials on NVIL - I use it sparingly in my daily workflow, but I'll admit that I've spent a ton of time messing about in the software, customising my interface, customising my hotkeys etc.. there is SO much power under the hood that I still don't probably know even half of what is there, but the lack of thorough documentation means I'll likely end up sticking to more familiar territory for quite some time (little time for experimentation when I'm "on-the-clock").  So, it may all be a bit noob unfriendly to say, but you'll get out of NVIL what you put into teaching it to yourself.  I'll tell you what, though, I've used 3ds MAX for ages and for pure modelling I choose to use NVIL far more often these days.  Best of luck!
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 08:09:14 pm by JTenebrous »

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December 16, 2013, 10:07:54 pm
Thanks kindly for the reply. I use mostly Hexagon but since Daz took over the app from Evoia Hexagon has gotten unstable, especially since Hex 2.5... I also use Wings3D but now very rarely. I also have Groboto ver 3.0 but the lack of updates and poor forum traffic is a big turn off. The forum was recently hacked and has since disappeared. It was also disclosed recently that Darrell (developer of Groboto) has cancer...

I started a thread on Renderosity asking what is a good replacement for Hexagon and many suggested Blender.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2875177

 But I can not stand the Blender interface. I ve also considered Silo but it too is very unstable on Windows 7 like Hexagon. Another poster at Renderosity suggested Nvil but not having any tutorials and very little activity on the  forum is a big turn off to me...

Someone posted this query on the forum asking what is the difference between Nvil and Void World and   the reply was a list of patches and bug fixes. I too would like to no what the difference is between the two... It's a very big turn off when posts are not replied to or when replied to are not answered...

Sorry but because of my two prior concerns I can not at this time justify any investment (time or money) in Nvil.

Thanks kindly for the reply... But for now I'll stick with Hexagon...at least I know what I have and DAZ does try to answer questions...

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December 16, 2013, 11:06:03 pm
As Passerby replied on the thread you mentioned, there is no difference between Voidworld and NVil.  NVil is just the new name/rebrand for Voidworld and, of course, tons of updates have occurred between then and now.

As for the compromising scenario you mention with other software, I feel your pain, and I've come to NVil for the same reasons.  Ok, my situation was a little different because I got spoiled by using big name professional software years ago, and just couldn't be satisfied with the Hexagons and Wings of the world, nor yet could I afford to have personal home licenses of the pro studio software I use.  These days, I don't animate, texture, or anything else... the only reason I need a subD tool at all is for poly modelling basic assets - 95% of my work is done in ZBrush, so I find NVIL to be a good companion, though its certainly not the most immediately-accessible user-friendly software I've ever used.  Still, the infrastructure is all there, and the options are so vast that you can pretty much hammer it into whatever kind of poly modelling tool you want - the only catch being that you already have to kind of know what you want.  I think some more options of professionally-designed preset layout/hotkey schemes could go a long way towards making NVIL more immediately accessible.

As for Blender, I too have struggled with it for years - there is a lot that I find appealing, but in practice have found it completely unintuitive.  Times are changing, though, and when I tried it again this weekend, tweaking a few options (changing Select to left mouse click, and the hotkey presets to "Blender 2012 Experimental"), I found that I was getting on with things pretty well.  So Blender may be worth another look again.  Like NVIL, it appears that with some customization it could be pretty powerful.

Regards,
J
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 11:08:41 pm by JTenebrous »

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December 17, 2013, 12:43:57 pm
Thanks kindly...I  really appreciate the reply...

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December 23, 2013, 02:48:32 pm
Another poster on Renderosity has the same concerns as myself...

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2875073&page=2#message_4124934

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December 23, 2013, 08:56:04 pm
Hi kenmo.

First of all, thanks for trying NVil.

Thanks for the link! I read it through and very happy to see yarp chose NVil by the end.

I am very sorry for the lack of tutorials. I may try to make some introdution tutorials myself when I have time and the right ideas. Currently I am focusing at making 64 bit version which is a huge task.

The "Void World Tips #1" is not a tutorial video. It is a video someone used to show me how to improve the viewport navigation design.

To do an edge loop selection, just left double click an edge. To select a range loop, click one edge then double click the other edge. There are more selection tools, see "Help > Contents > Modeling > Selection Tools". There are no guis for these tools so they are not obvious to new users. I don't know how you do it in other apps.

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December 24, 2013, 11:28:20 pm
Sorry tried as you suggested... basically this app is useless without the proper documentation or tutorials. It has to be one of the most unintuitive apps I've ever tried...

People who use Nvil inform me it is rock solid but that is meaningless if one does not even know how to perform a simple task like an edge loop or ring select. They also tell me it is a good stepping stone for people who use Silo3D or Hexagon.

In Hexagon or Wings3D it is a simple task to do a loop select or ring select... In Nvil I have no idea...  Also left clicking in Nvil brings up a mess of world balloons...

It may very well be more stable than Hexagon but it's ease of use is light years behind Hexagon...



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December 25, 2013, 12:23:37 am
(...)Currently I am focusing at making 64 bit version which is a huge task.
Oh my God! These are great news!
Keep up the good work, IStonia! :)

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December 25, 2013, 01:24:45 am
Sorry tried as you suggested... basically this app is useless without the proper documentation or tutorials. It has to be one of the most unintuitive apps I've ever tried...

Different people have different instinct way of thinking. It seems the way of NVil's design does not go in your way. Which app you can go straight into without reading/watching any doc/video? I'd like to see if I can get some inspiration from it. By the way I may have to tell you that I am the only person working on this project and I am working a fulltime job so you may understand why there is little tut and doc.


People who use Nvil inform me it is rock solid but that is meaningless if one does not even know how to perform a simple task like an edge loop or ring select. They also tell me it is a good stepping stone for people who use Silo3D or Hexagon.

In Hexagon or Wings3D it is a simple task to do a loop select or ring select... In Nvil I have no idea...  Also left clicking in Nvil brings up a mess of world balloons...

I have shown the way for selecting edge loops in my previous post. I can't think of any better or faster way of doing that. If any other app can do it better, I'd see if I can improve it.


...  Also left clicking in Nvil brings up a mess of world balloons...

Does it happen every time?


It may very well be more stable than Hexagon but it's ease of use is light years behind Hexagon...

I heard that Hexagon is good at easy of use before. I'd like to know why from you and other Hexagon users.

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December 25, 2013, 02:00:45 am
In Hexagon or Wings3D it is a simple task to do a loop select or ring select... In Nvil I have no idea... 
There is info in the help file as mentioned above by IStonia. But here is some info:-

In Nvil UI:-

Visual tools:-
1. Loop select
2. Edge ring select (full, grow and step)



In the drop down selection menu:-




You could use mouse with hotkeys:-
Edge loop select:- LMB(Left Mouse Button) select first edge of loop, then press "L" for edge loop selection.
Edge ring selection:- LMB(Left Mouse Button) Select first edge of ring, then press "H" for ring edge selection.

You can also just use mouse for selection:-

Edge loop select: Double LMB(Left Mouse Button) on edge for edge loop selection.
Edge ring select: Double MMB(Middle Mouse Button) on edge for ring edge selection.


Quote
Also left clicking in Nvil brings up a mess of world balloons...
I have not seen that.
Are you possibly referring to the RMB(Right Mouse Button) bringing up the radial menu as in this screenshot?



If yes, then that can be disabled by option in View menu:-

Disable the "Default RMB Activation Enabled"




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December 25, 2013, 02:05:58 am
Quote
By the way I may have to tell you that I am the only person working on this project and I am working a fulltime job so you may understand why there is little tut and doc.

Most of the Hexagon3D, Wings3D, Blender, Vue, etc tutorials are made not by the developers BUT by the end user community.

Quote

Quote from: kenmo on Yesterday at 11:28:20 PM
...  Also left clicking in Nvil brings up a mess of world balloons...

Does it happen every time?

What a second? You're the developer and you're asking me if it happens every time? YES...it does. And it is quite confusing...

I have no doubt you are a fantastic programmer.... BUT if Nvil is going to frustrate newbies your application no matter how stable it is will scare off newbies like me...

Would it not be more important to increase your user base before developing a 64 bit version? You increase your user base by making it easy for them to use your app. one way is through documentation and tutorials...

A 64 bit version may please the existing users but it is doing NOTHING to win over newbies...

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December 25, 2013, 02:15:35 am
Quote
I have not seen that.
Are you possibly referring to the RMB(Right Mouse Button) bringing up the radial menu as in this screenshot?

Yup that's it... and it is most annoying...

Here's a screen capture of the edge and ring tools in Hexagon. No hunting through the menus. Easy to find. I very dislike the hunting through a bizzare menu system with those very annoying balloon menus... Frequently used tools should be within easy access...

In Nvil the edge select and ring select are in two different locations? Why not have them beside each?

And NO I'm not interested in customizing the ui when I'm trying to learn how to use the app. I'll customize it IF I decide I want to use it and not before...
« Last Edit: December 25, 2013, 02:17:32 am by kenmo »

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December 25, 2013, 02:22:11 am
Quote
I have not seen that.
Are you possibly referring to the RMB(Right Mouse Button) bringing up the radial menu as in this screenshot?

Yup that's it... and it is most annoying...

Here's a screen capture of the edge and ring tools in Hexagon. No hunting through the menus. Easy to find. I very dislike the hunting through a bizzare menu system with those very annoying balloon menus... Frequently used tools should be within easy access...

As in the first screenshot in my last post, the "Edge loop select" and "Edge ring select" are in the Visual tools, which is by default in the main UI, so no need to go to menus. I was just showing the various methods of selection. Just realize, that the Visual tools are context sensitive, so changes depending on selection mode, so for example, loop selection will show in the visual tools when in edge selection/face selection mode

As for Hexagon, Yes, I know it well, I used it for over 6 years before finding Nvil about 18 months ago.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2013, 02:25:58 am by steve »