grid size

Is it possible to have a standard setting?

First thing I want to know is which is standard, imperial or metric?

What about some standard settings? With measurements where the Grid Interval fits to the Scene Scale? This would reduce the confusion quite a bit

It is not necessarily a case of the grid interval fitting to scene scale, but the scene scale being good for an objects size.
It is why during this [threads] scene scale process, we import a character and set the scene scale to that (the grid interval then adjusted as needed).

I think of a 1x1x1 box here, imported from the common packages and tools. Where you know that they are 1x1x1 meter in let`s say Blender. Or Unity. Or Max. Or Cine. Or ... . And where you simply can choose from a dropdown list to have a equal grid and scene setup then.

Even in applications where you can have a scene set to specific units (mm/cm or inch's etc), that is for display and possible export conversion, where you may (for simple example) create an object in mm, but want to export as cm. There can then be a conversion/calculation for the adjustment on export.
In the most common format ".obj" there is no way to place what a unit actually is.

I would say yes it is possible to have a standard setting.

Most packages have something like a standard setting. And they all seem to use a somehow equal metric standard. I´ve never seen a factor of let`s say 0.73 to fit from one package to another. It`s more 1.0,0.1,0.01 or 10, 100 and 1000. If even. A meter or a 1.0 in trueSpace is a meter or a 1.0 in Blender too. But i remember dxf files that i had to scale down by a factor of 100 to get a useful result that fits into the workspace.

I can of course just speak for my pipeline. Which includes Blender, trueSpace, Ultimate Unwrap 3D and Unity. And a few long forgotten tools and engines. A blender cube imports with the size of 2x2x2 in trueSpace and Ultimate Unwrap 3D just fine, and displays the same size and units in all three packages. Same goes for the cube in Unity then. They all use the same unit setup it seems.

If you call it meter or apple doesn`t really matter. The important part is that 1 unit in blender is 1 unit in Unity. And that the workspace is setup in a way that you can work with a standard 2.0 x 2.0 x 2.0 cube then. When i remember right this isn`t the case with Nvil at the moment.

Interpolated from that, and since Unity is a big player, i would say that packages like Max, Maya or Cinema4d are not this different here. Unity is made to fit to the big players in the first place.

Another hint gets delivered by the file formats. A unit of 1.0 in an Obj file is most probably a meter unit in one of the packages.

Maybe somebody else can share his experiences and thoughts here too

Cross posting with steve. I hope we don`t interfere too much here

Short of time at the moment. Just this point ...

In the most common format ".obj" there is no way to place what a unit actually is.

Obj unit range goes from 0.000001 to 999999.000000

One unit is 1.0

Obj unit range goes from 0.000001 to 999999.000000

One unit is 1.0

One what? mile/foot/inch/mm/cm/meter/???

You cannot set a scene scale until you decide as to what the units are to be, and what size the object(s) will be.

Another hint gets delivered by the file formats. A unit of 1.0 in an Obj file is most probably a meter unit in one of the packages.

It is not possible or wise to make such an assumption.

For example. You could be importing a model of an house and due to its size assume that the units are meters, but then find (after import) when the model was made, it was made in units of mm due to added detail.

Tiles, imagine you model an inset, then next you model a planet the size of the earth. How do you set up the measurement in TS?

By switching the unit resolution of course. I model such a planet nevertheless in Meters in most cases. And scale it into the needed size when done.

You have to fit your workspace to the most common modeling situation as the standard setup. And here the most common things are characters and buildings. So meter is a good thing. And gets used as the standard setup by most other modeling apps. To model planets in the planet size is a rare thing and uncommon.

One what? mile/foot/inch/mm/cm/meter/???

One standard unit. Which is in most packages one meter. As told, it doesn`t really matter how you call it. You can call it apple or meter. The vital part is that a standard unit of 1.0 is pretty equal 1.0 in nearly all 3d packages. Conversions from Meter to Milimeter or Kilometer or inches asides.

For example. You could be importing a model of an house and due to its size assume that the units are meters, but then find (after import) when the model was made, it was made in units of mm due to added detail.

When it`s in mm, then it would export and import in the Obj unit size of 0.01.

The vital part again is that one standard unit is one standard unit. A cube from Blender with its 2/2/2 should not import into Nvil as a tiny something in the size of a pixel that resides in the middle of the workspace. (That`s how it is at the moment when i remember right, i have modified the grid some time ago). But also not as a big block where you need several minutes of scrolling to reach the faces.

It is not possible or wise to make such an assumption.

It may not be wise, but it`s pretty practical. And it is already possible and reality in several packages.

I think i`ve told it before, sometimes it`s a wise decision to have a look at the other common packages. I can move my standard cube from one common package to another common package without the need to fiddle around with the import settings. That`s why i have named my pipeline software. They all will display this standard cube in a useful size with a useful grid setup in the workspace. Something that isn`t the case with Nvil at the moment.

I get of course your point with the conversion. But nobody says that a conversion from let`s say meters to kilometers is forbidden then. This can be done while im- or export for example. Or by a switch in the software. That`s what trueSpace has in its object info panel. You can set the units to several formats and needs.

A standard meter cube from Blender nevertheless imports as a standard meter cube into trueSpace and Unity. Meter is the most common and most used unit from what i know.

In this shot i have converted a cube that had around 1.5 meters to kilometers. And then switched the units back. Now it has 1500 meters ...

One standard unit. Which is in most packages one meter.

Which packages?. For example, C4D by default works in units of CM, and a default box/cube is 200 x 200 x 200
 

As told, it doesn`t really matter how you call it. You can call it apple or meter. The vital part is that a standard unit of 1.0 is pretty equal 1.0 in nearly all 3d packages. Conversions from Meter to Milimeter or Kilometer or inches asides.

A unit is a unit, yes. But it depends on what the user decides a units size is.

When it`s in mm, then it would export and import in the Obj unit size of 0.01.

You are assuming that it is the same user exporting/importing between applications and has decided on what a unit size is, or at least, that some standard unit size as been agreed between all users of all software. Even the vendors cannot decide on that.

The vital part again is that one standard unit is one standard unit.

But it is. But it also depends on what unit size is decided upon.
 

A cube from Blender with its 2/2/2 should not import into Nvil as a tiny something in the size of a pixel that resides in the middle of the workspace. (That`s how it is at the moment when i remember right, i have modified the grid some time ago). But also not as a big block where you need several minutes of scrolling to reach the faces.

You are going from a specific size. You cannot set a workable grid/scale until you know the size of an object and the units is as been built in.

It may not be wise, but it`s pretty practical. And it is already possible and reality in several packages.

Again I ask, which packages?

I think i`ve told it before, sometimes it`s a wise decision to have a look at the other common packages. I can move my standard cube from one common package to another common package without the need to fiddle around with the import settings.

Import/export settings are not the same as "scene scale". Show me where in the other packages a "scene scale" adjustment can be made.
 

That`s why i have named my pipeline software. They all will display this standard cube in a useful size with a useful grid setup in the workspace. Something that isn`t the case with Nvil at the moment.

A cube of 1 x 1 x 1 will import (by default) into NVIL as, surprisingly as it may be to you, as 1 x 1 x 1. A specific grid size is only good for a model that would use that grid size.

A standard meter cube from Blender nevertheless imports as a standard meter cube into trueSpace and Unity. Meter is the most common and most used unit from what i know.

There is no such thing as a "standard meter cube". For characters, look at Daz studio, 1 unit = 2.4384 m, in Poser, 1 unit can be either 2.4384m, 2.54m or 2.62128m. or even something completely different.

In this shot i have converted a cube that had around 1.5 meters to kilometers. And then switched the units back. Now it has 1500 meters ...

Why would/should switching from meters to kilometers then back again to meters change the size of the object. That sounds like a bug.

Is it possible to have a standard setting?

It appears to me (and of course I could be wrong), that Tiles is looking for a default setup whereas the "Generic" unit setup would be equal to:-

Scale = 1
Unit: 100 as one meter
Grid Interval 1m
(which currently equates to a generic unit setup with grid interval =1 and scene scale of 0.01)

That would show a 1x1x1 cube as a reasonable size to view object on import/ view reset.


To add: Although I have no real issue with current defaults, I have always wondered as to why the default grid is 25 units?.

Which packages?. For example, C4D by default works in units of CM, and a default box/cube is 200 x 200 x 200

Which makes a standard cube of 2x2x2 meters

Again I ask, which packages?

I already named four of them that works pretty good together, and somehow share the same unit setup. That`s Blender, trueSpace, Ultimate Unwrap 3D and Unity. How many more do you need?

I know that the game engine Unreal also uses a unit system that imports equal like Unity. I know that the Game engine Acknex7 also works with a standard unit that works just fine with the meter units. If not they would have problems with their physics engines. That`s where it is important to have a useful standard unit. I remember two or three more smaller unknown packages like roadkill that also works just fine with meter units.

Cinema 4D is fine with that too when you set the Units to meters. Interestingly enough it seems that the old cine versions did use meters as the default units too. This was changed with r12 or r13. For no known reason. The cine users that i have asked uses meters ...

Max uses so called generic units. But even here you can set the units to meters, and all is fine. Max imports the cube a bit small but not too tiny from what a max user told me. So even here it seems to fit.

Anyways. I´ve attached a standard Blender cube in Obj format. That way you can have a look. And you can have a look at the values in the obj file. They go from -1 to 1. Means this cube is 2x2x2 units big.

By the way where does Nvil store the grid setup? In the Digitalfossils folder or in the registry somewhere? I just imported this standard cube and it looks fine. But i remember that it looked very very tiny when i did this in the past. I`ve removed the Digitalfossils folder to have the default setup. And am unsure if this is my own setup, or the current standard Nvil setup.

It appears to me (and of course I could be wrong), that Tiles is looking for a default setup whereas the "Generic" unit setup would be equal to:-

Scale = 1
Unit: 100 as one meter
Grid Interval 1m
(which currently equates to a generic unit setup with grid interval =1 and scene scale of 0.01)

That would show a 1x1x1 cube as a reasonable size to view object on import/ view reset.

Hm, i am looking more for a unit of 1 equal 1 meter. Which needs to be displayed in the viewport in a reasonable size. But in general, yes. Something like that

Which packages?. For example, C4D by default works in units of CM, and a default box/cube is 200 x 200 x 200

Which makes a standard cube of 2x2x2 meters

It does not work like that. If you export that 200x200x200 cube at defaults (.obj format), it would import into other applications at those 200x200x200 units. Where is the global cross platform meter sized cube you mention there?

I already named four of them that works pretty good together, and somehow share the same unit setup. That`s Blender, trueSpace, Ultimate Unwrap 3D and Unity. How many more do you need?

They do not share a unit setup. Blender does not have unit sizes, neither does Unwrap 3d.
What is the default units size given in Truespace, is it meters?

I know that the game engine Unreal also uses a unit system that imports equal like Unity. I know that the Game engine Acknex7 also works with a standard unit that works just fine with the meter units. If not they would have problems with their physics engines. That`s where it is important to have a useful standard unit. I remember two or three more smaller unknown packages like roadkill that also works just fine with meter units.

Why do you keep going on about meter units, I know of no 3d modeling/rendering application (that as unit sizes) that as a default of 1 unit = 1 meter.

Cinema 4D is fine with that too when you set the Units to meters.

Wow, you are really hard work.

Max uses so called generic units.

They all use generic units, it is just the user can decide if they want those units to represent a specific size.

Anyways. I´ve attached a standard Blender cube in Obj format. That way you can have a look. And you can have a look at the values in the obj file. They go from -1 to 1. Means this cube is 2x2x2 units big.

Where in an .obj file does it state those units are meters?

It appears to me (and of course I could be wrong), that Tiles is looking for a default setup whereas the "Generic" unit setup would be equal to:-

Scale = 1
Unit: 100 as one meter
Grid Interval 1m
(which currently equates to a generic unit setup with grid interval =1 and scene scale of 0.01)

That would show a 1x1x1 cube as a reasonable size to view object on import/ view reset.

Hm, i am looking more for a unit of 1 equal 1 meter. Which needs to be displayed in the viewport in a reasonable size. But in general, yes. Something like that

Then why not setup as I have shown, job done. 

It does not work like that. If you export that 200x200x200 cube at defaults (.obj format), it would import into other applications at those 200x200x200 units. Where is the global cross platform meter sized cube you mention there?

Are you sure? Then this would be a odd behaviour of the cine obj exporter. A trueSpace cube of 200 cm still exports as 2x2x2 units.

Where have i said that a unit really needs to be one meter? Of course they all are generic. And i said more than once that you can call it apple too. What i said is that one unit is one unit in all apps. No matter how it gets called. And they fit to each other because one unit gets handlet as one unit. That`s the important bit. When i export a blender cube in one unit size then it imports as one unit size in all other apps too. And in all apps i have a look at a proper sized cube after import. And don`t need to zoom in or out dramatically to show it.

Nevertheless, one meter as one unit is somehow common. And that`s what i also said. Even cine uses a metric system, but has decided to use centimeters and not longer meters as the standard for an odd reason since two or three versions. Game engines usually uses one unit as meter because that`s needed by the physics engines to get proper calculations.

Then why not setup as I have shown, job done. 

And why not simply make this setting to a standard setup so that nobody has to setup it by himself? That`s what this discussion is about at the moment

I share your question about the grid resolution by the way. It`s a bit odd