NVil Forum
General Category => NVILL Discussion => Topic started by: 3dwizzard on July 30, 2012, 08:26:29 pm
-
I am trying to figure out how, Mirror works in this program.
In the select sub-menu, I am trying to figure out how select along symmetry center works.
When I select the option, nothing seems to happen.
The object I am trying to achieve, select haft the mesh, delete it, and to reproduce the other side with mirror.
Flattened seems odd also. Mainly, I'm trying to flatten it on the X. axis. But, by the looks of it.
The Y. axes, look like it needs flattened also:
(http://www.divshare.com/img/19252857-9df.jpg)
As you can see, there is a big slit in front of the skirt.
I'm just guessing. But, I think if I could flatten it on the X. axis before mirror. It would fixed it.
In the prospective view (your right, her left). You can see how the spline goes in front of the strap, on one side.
And goes behind the strap, on the other side.
I'm hoping flatten on the Y. axes will fix it? "Both straps should be behind the spline."
-
Hi 3dwizzard,
I am trying to figure out how, Mirror works in this program.
Select the object that contains the mesh you want to mirror (an object can contain multiple sub_object meshes).
If you want to use object or mesh space mirror, you need to set object/mesh pivot location for mirror. While still in object mode, use "Pivot" command to set pivot.
Change to sub_object mesh selection. Enable "Mirror" Choose mirror axis and reference space, then click on mesh to mirror.
In the select sub-menu, I am trying to figure out how select along symmetry center works.
When I select the option, nothing seems to happen.
You first need to be in symmetry mode.
Flattened seems odd also.
Flatten will flatten a selection to a plane calculated from the average normals of the selection.
You should either use the scale manipulator or the "Align" tool to set up the object/mesh edge for mirror.
-
I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. I'm still getting the opening at the front of the skirt.
Something I noticed in the wireframe. The outline is highlighted in blue. At first,
I thought it was the splines. Not sure what's going on there.
(http://www.divshare.com/img/19268683-b9c.jpg)
This is a tough one.
I'm working on a html, showing step-by-step what I'm doing. Should have it done by tomorrow sometime.
I'll put it in a zip file and supply a link to the download.
-
Hi 3dwizzard,
The blue lines show open edges.
One way to align the edges:-
Here I have got a cylinder that is not connected down the center line, with gaps between the 2 parts. (It is one object/mesh).
(http://i.imgur.com/qBSij.jpg)
Select all vertex (or edges) that make up the center line of the mesh
(http://i.imgur.com/jEGZE.jpg)
Because the objects center line is at world X/Z zero (your skirt will be at the same location, as the character mesh would of been imported to that location). Set the manipulator(pivot) to World orientation/Pivot position and set to "scale" manipulator.
(http://i.imgur.com/46ay0.jpg)
In the main view, select the X axis on the manipulator and drag to zero
(http://i.imgur.com/aIume.jpg)
If you want then to copy one side to the other to repair the mesh, you can use the shortcut keys for symmetry. But first make sure symmetry is set up correctly in "Edit-> Options-> Shortcut Symmetry Options->", which looking at the pic you posted, would be "X axis", and select "Symmetry enabled"
You can then press "Ctrl+W" which will remove (looking from front view) the right hand side( positive in X) of the mesh, copy/mirror the left side(negative in X) and weld them together.
Or,
Press "Ctrl+Q" which will remove the left hand side(negative in X) of the mesh, copy/mirror the right side(positive in X) and weld them together.
Hope that helps.
-
Wow, that's different. Not quite what I'm used to. But it works. :)
(http://www.divshare.com/img/19274558-21b.jpg)
I wanted to try it in Poser, to see how it drapes. But I can't seem to get rid of these eyes and mouth.
I tried to delete them in VW, and couldn't. Any ideas?
-
I got it. Didn't realize there was that many vertices in eyes and teeth.
-
If you have the character mesh still in scene, and want to just export the skirt, select just the skirt and "File-> Save selected".
-
Didn't even see that, thank you. :)
-
I thought I would update this.
I had some trouble trying to get the spline's to clothify.
Never could get it. They seem like wires.
When I tried it with the straps. It never stopped calculating.
I started calculating before I went to bed. When I woke up the next morning,
it was still calculating. I don't know why.
Maybe Posers cloth room, got confused by Retopo?
I don't know. I tried it a few times, and it was always the same thing.
It just seemed to calculate for ever.
I did a couple versions, and the strapless version worked best.
Here is a render:
(http://www.divshare.com/img/19447838-179.jpg)
-
What is this calculation thing you talked about? Does it happen in VoidWorld or Poser?
-
Hi 3dwizzard,
I had some trouble trying to get the spline's to clothify.
Never could get it. They seem like wires.
How did you get the splines into poser?
I believe Poser will only "clothify"(is that an actual word lol) polygons.
When exporting the dress from Nvil, make sure you only export the dress, select the dress and use "Save selected"
When I tried it with the straps. It never stopped calculating.
I started calculating before I went to bed. When I woke up the next morning,
it was still calculating. I don't know why.
I do not use poser much, and never used the cloth sim (I should have a play). Maybe you have bad geometry? or maybe a problem with collision detection?
What version of poser are you using?
-
Hi IStonia,
What is this calculation thing you talked about? Does it happen in VoidWorld or Poser?
It is in Poser, it is to calculate dynamic cloth. I made this skirt with Void World.
I was going to get Silo, and somebody suggested to me to try this.
I'm glad I did. I like it. I just need to get used to a few things.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi steve,
How did you get the splines into poser?
I just imported it, into Poser through: File/Import/Wavefont OBJ....
Didn't have any problems. It imported real nice.
I believe Poser will only "clothify"(is that an actual word lol) polygons.
Now that you mention it. I do recall something like that.
It's been so long, that I had to learn how to do a simulation all over again.
Save Selected, that might be it. I'll have to try that.
"clothify"(is that an actual word lol)
I wondered that myself. Sometimes I think that's a word that Crious Lab, made up.
But it is the second step in the cloth simulation:
(http://www.divshare.com/img/19466611-08a.jpg)
Maybe you have bad geometry? or maybe a problem with collision detection?
Bad geometry, that could be possible. I could've deleted something that I shouldn't have.
But I don't think it was the collision detection.
I got that straightened out now.
What version of poser are you using?
I'm using p6. I have Poser Pro. But I have a lot of scripts that are P6 specific.
PS. Sorry so long between posts, been working a lot in the garden.
-
3dwizzard, VoidWorld does not export splines to obj file.
I guess you may have exported the reference model with the cloth and Poser treat them all as cloth mesh. If this is the case, you can imagine how big the amount of calculation it could be. One way to check it out is to check your obj file size.
-
Hi IStonia,
Thanks for pointing that out. I looked at the polygon count
on the strapless skirt. It was 720.
Then I looked at the straped skirt, and it was 2200 and something. Big difference.
I looked closer at it, and the splines wasn't even there. The problem was,
the straps themselves. I tried to get too fancy. Way too many polygons.
There was a lot of triangles to.
I think it would be easiest, to start with the strapless skirt. And add straps.
Many thanks. :)
-
720 and 2200 are not big different to me. Maybe the problem lies in the straps geometry. You mentioned you have triangles there. That could be a possible reason. The other thing I wonder is that the shape of the straps may not suitable for cloth similating in Poser. You can try a strap with jut a few polygons and see how it may happen in Poser. Another test you can do is just try a mesh with straps only and no skirt.
-
Hi 3dwizard,
I found a bit of time to have a play with clothify in poser. I made a quick dress(well, more like a barrel lol) with straps, and did not find any major problems. The dress had 70,000 polygons.
I did notice that the straps appear to not fall correctly on the shoulders, there is a gap/clearance. I may be missing a setting somewhere.
-
Hi IStonia,
The straps geometry was it. Now it's only 806 polygons.
I messed up though, during the mirror process. I forgot to press Ctrl.+ W or Ctrl + Q.
But it gave me an idea. It kind of looked like a lingerie Nighty.
So I made it a transparency.
I was wondering what are the feelings toward posting something like this on the fourm?
It's not that bad, I've seen worse on TV. Most fourms require a nudity warning.
-
Sorry Steve, I didn't realize this went to another page.
Wow, 70,000 polygons.
It must've been all that beveling and subdividing I did.
This time I took a different approach.
I used one of the polygons that I started to retopo, and cut it into three.
Then I did the same thing on the back. And bridge them together.
Now I got that string look I was shooting for.
-
Hi 3dwizzard,
It must've been all that beveling....................
What are you beveling? Are you adding thickness to the dress?
This time I took a different approach.......Now I got that string look I was shooting for.
It is good to experiment.
I cannot really help much with character cloths, it is not something I have been involved with.
I do intend to build some sci-fi armor for a character, but still going through the tools in Nvil and looking more at blenders rigging.
-
Hi Steve,
What are you beveling? Are you adding thickness to the dress?
Something like that. I was trying to get the straps to look more round.
It is good to experiment.
Curiosity is really in my nature. I know I should stick to protocol,
but once I get an idea in my head. I just got to try it.
but still going through the tools in Nvil and looking more at blenders rigging.
Never did any rigging. I used to use Blender though, until I went to 2.5.
It changed too much for me, and I didn't feel like relearning it all.
-
Hi 3dwizzard,
Something like that. I was trying to get the straps to look more round.
Adding thickness is not something I believe you should do for poser clothes (although I know little concerning that, as I have only just stated looking into poser/cloths/clothify). I believe you should be constructing from a single sided mesh, with folds at the edges of the mesh to make it look like there is thickness (but make sure there are no non-manifold edges (edges with more than 2 connected polygons))
I will check to see correct methods, and we can learn the process together, if you want to?.
To Add:-
Checking in poser: Objects being converted to cloth must have single-sided, connected polygons without caps.
Currently experimenting LOL.
--------------
Got it working correctly after experimenting (more like playing around) with the dynamic groups in the cloth room.
Curiosity is really in my nature. I know I should stick to protocol,
but once I get an idea in my head. I just got to try it.
Nothing at all bad about experimenting, that is how I learn, and why it can take me a while to learn a new application, because I like to experiment with each tool to see what it is supposed to do, but also what I can make it do.
Never did any rigging. I used to use Blender though, until I went to 2.5.
It changed too much for me, and I didn't feel like relearning it all.
I have done some rigging/IK in the past, albeit limited.
I did look at blender versions before 2.5, but could never get into the need for all the shortcut keys, which is amusing considering I have not thrown Nvil away due to the need for shortcut keys LOL. I am getting into blender now since 2.5X, although slowly, there is a lot to learn, but do not really like its modeling tools. I was comfortable with wings3d, but got distracted by Nvil and got a little hooked with this modeler.
-
Hi steve,
Adding thickness is not something I believe you should do for poser clothes (although I know little concerning that, as I have only just stated looking into poser/cloths/clothify)
I'm new at it myself, and from what I'm seeing I believe you're right. Especially when it comes to clothifing.
(but make sure there are no non-manifold edges (edges with more than 2 connected polygons))
That's interesting, I never heard of non-manifold edges. I'm assuming that would be on the vertical ends.??
Or is that the meaning for a single sided polygons.
I will check to see correct methods, and we can learn the process together, if you want to?.
Yes, I would like that very much.
Got it working correctly after experimenting (more like playing around) with the dynamic groups in the cloth room.
I never even gave a thought about dynamic groups. There goes those ideas.
I was comfortable with wings3d, but got distracted by Nvil and got a little hooked with this modeler.
I was also comfortable with Wings3d, but I needed to step up to something more advanced. VW fit nicely.
I also like how customizable the interface is.
-
Hi 3dwizzard,
That's interesting, I never heard of non-manifold edges. I'm assuming that would be on the vertical ends.??
Or is that the meaning for a single sided polygons.
It is on any of the edges.
For example, if you have a cube(made of quads), there are 6 faces, each face with 4 edges, and each edge as only 2 polygons attached. That would be called "manifold"
With wing3d, which is intended to created solid models (not open surfaces), that can be classed as a manifold modeler.
When referring to "Non-manifold" in poly modeling, it would be when you have a single edge that connects more that 2 polygons, for example in the pic, it shows 3 polygons connected together on one edge. Some poly modelers do not react well to that.
(http://i.imgur.com/mgVPK.jpg)
I will check to see correct methods, and we can learn the process together, if you want to?.
Yes, I would like that very much.
I will put together my findings/methods into a post to show where I am up to. Although I am still in early experimentation lol.
I never even gave a thought about dynamic groups.
They certainly help, as you can change how different parts of the cloths react, such as how buttons do not bend etc.
It is better to create the groups in Nvil, be it either with the sub-object group tool, or using different materials. They can then be easily added to the pre-defined groups in Poser.
-
Now I know what they mean by a non-manifold edges. Thank you! ;D
I will put together my findings/methods into a post to show where I am up to. Although I am still in early experimentation lol.
It probably would be best if you started a new post.
This one is getting long.
It is better to create the groups in Nvil, be it either with the sub-object group tool, or using different materials. They can then be easily added to the pre-defined groups in Poser.
I used to create material groups, in Wings3d. Nvil still eludes me, how to make material groups.
-
Hi 3dwizzard,
It probably would be best if you started a new post.
This one is getting long.
I have been creating some simple clothes, such as vests, just experimenting with construction methods, then seeing how they react in poser cloth (clothify). I have this weekend free, so will play more, and make a post during this weekend.
I used to create material groups, in Wings3d. Nvil still eludes me, how to make material groups.
I originally thought I would be able to use the polygon groups from Nvil for the poser dynamic groups, but the material groups are needed.
You can set material groups up as you do in Wings3d, by selecting the polygons, then applying a new material to that selection.
Example:-
A sphere, and I want to apply 2 material (polygon) groups.
Select the polygons for first group, on the right hand side of screen, you will see the "Materials" tab. Click the tab to open the materials window.
(http://i.imgur.com/SH4az.jpg)
In the "materials-> Scene materials", right click in any of the top material windows, the drop down menu will show, select "New"
(http://i.imgur.com/c0o56.jpg)
A new material will be placed in one of those material windows, with it selected, you can change its name, change diffuse color, load a 2d texture etc.
(http://i.imgur.com/yog3l.jpg)
You then right click on the material you want to add to the polygon selection, and select "Assign to object or Polygon selection".
(http://i.imgur.com/Tfk3G.jpg)
The new material will be placed on selection
(http://i.imgur.com/uhX0s.jpg)
-
Assign to object or Polygon selection. I must've looked at that at least 20 times, and never made the connection. :-[
-
Had some time this weekend, made one with the straps.
(http://www.divshare.com/img/19581177-38f.jpg)
-
Hi 3dwizzard,
Sorry, I got somewhat distracted with some modeling, but it looks like you have managed to get there with the straps.
-Steve
-
Sorry Steve, I got distracted myself.
My daughter recently had her baby, and I haven't been online much.
Just saw him for the first time today.
It's kind of hard to think of myself as a grandpa. But I must admit, I am a proud grandpa. ;D
Getting back to Nvil, I like the idea of folding edges for thickness:
I believe you should be constructing from a single sided mesh, with folds at the edges of the mesh to make it look like there is thickness
Would a primitive be considered a single sided mesh?
I start off with a low poly cylinder. But I'm not sure if that is a single sided mesh.
-
Hi 3dwizzard,
It's kind of hard to think of myself as a grandpa. But I must admit, I am a proud grandpa. ;D
Congratulations to you and your daughter/family.
Getting back to Nvil, I like the idea of folding edges for thickness:
There are various ways of doing that. I will post a quick example.
Would a primitive be considered a single sided mesh?
I start off with a low poly cylinder. But I'm not sure if that is a single sided mesh.
Yes, they are single sided.
-
Hi Steve,
Congratulations to you and your daughter/family.
Thank you!
There are various ways of doing that. I will post a quick example.
Thank you again!
Yes, they are single sided.
Wow, you are super helpful. Thank you very much! ;D
-
Hi 3dwizzard,
OK< here is a quick example of how I create an edge seam/fold. (of course there are other ways to do this).
I will just use an open cylinder for this example.
Here is the cylinder, I will be placing a fold on the selected polygons (you could think of it as placing a seam/fold on the cuff end of a shirt or similar.)
(http://i.imgur.com/Ff6Sg.jpg)
First, I want to add an extra edge loop, here I have selected the edge loop and used "Chamfer-> Chop corner off" as it produces 2 edge loops from the selection.
(http://i.imgur.com/QxU5Z.jpg)
Select the top face loop and duplicate it. I have used the option "Remain in same mesh"
(http://i.imgur.com/LP91F.jpg)
Press "OK" and the new polygons will be selected. I now want to move those polygons in, slightly away from the outside polygons. Pres(hold down) "H"+LMB and drag the mouse, that will move the selected polygons in their normal direction.
(http://i.imgur.com/Y8CnX.jpg)
Now select the outside faceloop and again use the "H"+LMB, and move the selection outward slightly, you should see a gap between those 2 faceloops
(http://i.imgur.com/51cRc.jpg)
Select the 2 top edgeloops and use the "Bridge" command.
(http://i.imgur.com/tLJHk.jpg)
Select one of the polygons on the side of the mesh and use "Geometry-> Common Commands n Tools-> Unify Polygon Facings". That will make sure all the polygon normals are facing the same direction for the mesh.
Just for reference. I have deleted part of the cylinder, so you can see a cross section of the fold.
(http://i.imgur.com/N4IFg.jpg)
Hope that helps, just ask if anything is not clear.
-
Hi Steve,
Thanks again, for helping me out.
Last night I had a little time to try this out. From what I see, you need to do the top hem
before the straps. I tried it with the straps, but when I bridged. Well, there was bridges everywhere.
It worked real good with the strapless version.
Everything went like clockwork, until I got to (Unify Polygon Facings).
The closest thing I could find was, (Flip Polygon Facings).
I probably need to update. I'm still running version 2.4, that I got back in June.
I'm just not sure how update work on VW. Do you install on top of the old one?
Or do you delete all the files in the folder, and reinstall fresh?
Hopefully Sunday I will have some more time to sit down with it.
Thanks again for the help. ;D
-
I probably need to update. I'm still running version 2.4, that I got back in June.
I'm just not sure how update work on VW. Do you install on top of the old one?
Or do you delete all the files in the folder, and reinstall fresh?
Neither nor is really necessary. Just download the newest version. It`s a zipfile. Create a folder, place it where you want ( i have mine at another drive), move the zipfile inside of it. Unzip it. And with a click at the Voidworld.exe you can immediately run the new version.
Before that you might want to backup the "DigitalFossils" folder in your documents directory in case the new version mixes up the settings.
-
Hi 3dwizzard,
I tried it with the straps, but when I bridged. Well, there was bridges everywhere.
More than likely a problem due to the directions of the polygon normals. I will put together a quick example when I get back from city center (have been ordered out for shopping trip)
Everything went like clockwork, until I got to (Unify Polygon Facings).
The closest thing I could find was, (Flip Polygon Facings).
Yes, sorry, it was an addition made a few builds ago, I thought you would be using the latest version.
I probably need to update. I'm still running version 2.4, that I got back in June.
I'm just not sure how update work on VW. Do you install on top of the old one?
Or do you delete all the files in the folder, and reinstall fresh?
Just delete the "Voidworld" folder, but keep a backup copy of the "msvcr71.dll" to copy to the new folder of the updated version.
All the config files are in the "DigitalFossils" folder. Up to now I have had no problem simply leaving it and letting the updated version of nVil use that, but you would (as mentioned by Tiles) be better to keep a backup copy of that just in case of any problems.
-
Hi 3dwizzard,
I was having a look at the problem with "Bridge", there does appear to be a bug, but it depends on construction of the surfaces being bridged. If I can narrow the problem down I can make a bug report.
How did you create the straps for the dress? Was it with a spline + Slide?
-
Okay, now I am confused. I opened up the folder where I unzipped the EXE. I don't see no DigitalFossils folder.
I would like to make a backup with the other configuration. All the changes I did with the import of scale.
And the export scale. Right now, it works great with Poser.
Plus I have that out for two monitors.
This is what I'm seeing:
(http://www.divshare.com/img/19691798-a0c.jpg)
Okay I found it. It was on my C drive, in the my documents folder.
How it got there, I don't know.
I don't know if I should make a copy of it, or let it go?
________________________________________________________________________
Hi Steve,
Just caught your post.
How did you create the straps for the dress? Was it with a spline + Slide?
I use retopo.
-
Hi 3dwizzard,
Okay I found it. It was on my C drive, in the my documents folder.
How it got there, I don't know.
NVIL will create that folder + default preferences when it first starts if it is not already there.
I don't know if I should make a copy of it, or let it go?
I would make a backup copy.
You do not need to delete the original, just leave it where it is, and the new version of NVIL will use those preferences.
-
Hi 3dwizzard,
...........but when I bridged. Well, there was bridges everywhere..
I have started a thread concerning "Bridge", it shows an example of problems I see, and the way I work around them.
http://voidworld.cmcproductions.co.uk/index.php/topic,500.0.html