NVil Forum
General Category => NVILL Discussion => Topic started by: IStonia on January 01, 2014, 04:52:24 am
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Ok, here is a new built which should work as 32-bit app in 32-bit pcs and as 64-bit app in 64-bit pcs. Please let me know if it works or not. I don't have 64-bit pc to test it.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Jan-01-14.rar
Thanks!
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On win7 64, it is crashing on startup (faulting module "Kernelbase.dll"). Exception code:- 0xe0434f4d
Update:-
Prerequisites missing for slimDX (nice to see the move away from MDX).
A need to download/install end user runtime(for slimDX):- http://slimdx.org/download.php (the .net 2 download)
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Does it run after installing SlimDX runtime as 64-bit app?
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Apart from the 32bit image files it is loading from its directory(the dll's shipped with Nvil), it is loading 64bit image files from system. It appears to be accessing 64bit memory space, a very quick test adding 6 million polygons was OK. So yes.
FYI
I am seeing a longer time for startup (about X2)
When adding some primitives and/or changing between obj/sub-object selection, the main screen flickers. I thought that was due to V-sync, but forcing v-sync on/off (Nvidia) does not change it. (I will swap over to AMD GPU later to check if problem just with Nvidia)
Also, while in obj-mode, "Duplicate" does not work.
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Can you try run it as 32-bit app and see if its better startup and no screen flickers?
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On 32bit (win XP pro <- only 32bit system I have, which is for internet)
Startup time is same as previous version (so it is not taking longer)
Still seeing screen flicker(main view).
Also on the 32bit, the HUD is not completely showing (see attached screenshot).
HUD is showing OK on 64bit system. Both have Nvidia GPU)
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You possibly can right click the exe icon and run it as 32-bit app in your 64-bit pc and see if the HUD is good. Also can you run the old 32-bit version on your 32-bit pc and see if the HUD is good?
Edit:
Still seeing screen flicker(main view).
What do you mean by "main view"? Is it the selected viewport?
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You possibly can right click the exe icon and run it as 32-bit app in your 64-bit pc and see if the HUD is good.
There is no way I know of right clicking an application and forcing it to run as 64bit or 32bit.
Also can you run the old 32-bit version on your 32-bit pc and see if the HUD is good?
The HUD for Nvil-DEC-23-13 is OK. I checked that before making last post.
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Do you use different languages for your two pcs? Also I ask for the meaning of "main view" in my previous post.
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What do you mean by "main view"? Is it the selected viewport?
In all viewports.
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Have changed over to AMD GPU, I am seeing the same issue.
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Do you use different languages for your two pcs?
No, same language on all.
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Please test this new update
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Jan-02-14.rar
I haven't done anything about the viewport flicker. Is it very bad? Can you describe in more detail? How long does it last? Does it happen once or more times? What kind of color do you see?
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Hi IStonia
Tried running the latest update(Jan-02) on my 64 bit Windows 7 system and wouldn't start. Got a message saying "NVil 1.0 exe has stopped working".
Regards
Mal
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Have you installed SlimDX runtime? The information is in the second post.
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I have Win 7 x 64 bit, just upgraded the computer so it is fairly clean :)
I downloaded this 64 bit version and I also got a message saying "NVil 1.0 exe has stopped working, so I downloaded and installed SlimDX runtime as in IStonia's post and NVil is working..
(just have to learn how to use it a bit better)
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I haven't done anything about the viewport flicker. Is it very bad? Can you describe in more detail? How long does it last? Does it happen once or more times? What kind of color do you see?
I would not say it is very bad, just not good.
IMHO, it appears to possibly be a case of a screen redraw without buffering when focus is changed between viewport(s) and each of the other windows (other windows such as visual_tools etc).
It does appear to stop after the focus as been made between the windows.
I will find time later to make a quick vid to show the issue.
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Hi IStonia, All,
after following Steve's instructions things already work quite nicely on my 64bit win7 machine! There's no flicker (old Nvdia GTX 275 card)and I could for the first time display millions of polygons on screen. Awesome! With the first version I could not save .obj's but that's gone with the second version. Also with that first version I saw HUD-defects my old 32 bit Laptop (haven't checked with the second test release).
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I gave it a first glance by reaching 3.14 million of polygons and 6.4GB RAM usage. Nice.
However, it crashed when I attempted to load one of my VWS scenes.
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
at DigitalFossil.Character.DrawFrame(FrameDerived frame, Boolean drawMaterialWithTransparent)
at DigitalFossil.Character.DrawFrame(FrameDerived frame, Boolean drawMaterialWithTransparent)
at DigitalFossil.Character.RenderBegin()
at DigitalFossil.Character.Render()
at DigitalFossil.BaseGraphicWindow.RenderObjectsInOrder(ArrayList charactersToRender, Boolean solid, Boolean transparent)
at DigitalFossil.BaseGraphicWindow.RenderObjectsInOrder(Boolean solid, Boolean transparent)
at DigitalFossil.AnimationDesign.AnimationDesignGraphicWindow.RenderObjects()
at DigitalFossil.AnimationDesign.AnimationDesignGraphicWindow.Render()
at DigitalFossil.BaseGraphicWindow.Render3DEnvironment()
at DigitalFossil.BaseGraphicWindow.FullRenderDetail(Boolean forced)Something with instances. This scene has a bunch of them.
I didn't notice any flickering yet.
I think the new x64 version wipes the material library clean. I had several custom materials defined, but now have none.
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Hi rubberduck,
I didn't notice any flickering yet.
What graphics card / drivers do you have? What screen resolution are you using?
What about Nvil start up time?
On my setup (which is quite quick with a fast SSD), the last 32bit Nvil took 5 seconds to load. The 64bit version now take over 9 seconds. That may not sound a long time, but my system/OS will cold boot in under 8 seconds. So for a modeling application to take longer to load than my PC cold booting is excessive. (other apps, such as Wings/blender take 1 second to load).
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I gave it a first glance by reaching 3.14 million of polygons and 6.4GB RAM usage. Nice.
However, it crashed when I attempted to load one of my VWS scenes.
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
at DigitalFossil.Character.DrawFrame(FrameDerived frame, Boolean drawMaterialWithTransparent)
at DigitalFossil.Character.DrawFrame(FrameDerived frame, Boolean drawMaterialWithTransparent)
at DigitalFossil.Character.RenderBegin()
at DigitalFossil.Character.Render()
at DigitalFossil.BaseGraphicWindow.RenderObjectsInOrder(ArrayList charactersToRender, Boolean solid, Boolean transparent)
at DigitalFossil.BaseGraphicWindow.RenderObjectsInOrder(Boolean solid, Boolean transparent)
at DigitalFossil.AnimationDesign.AnimationDesignGraphicWindow.RenderObjects()
at DigitalFossil.AnimationDesign.AnimationDesignGraphicWindow.Render()
at DigitalFossil.BaseGraphicWindow.Render3DEnvironment()
at DigitalFossil.BaseGraphicWindow.FullRenderDetail(Boolean forced)Something with instances. This scene has a bunch of them.
I didn't notice any flickering yet.
I think the new x64 version wipes the material library clean. I had several custom materials defined, but now have none.
Can you send me the file?
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Also with that first version I saw HUD-defects my old 32 bit Laptop (haven't checked with the second test release).
I now checked - the HUD with the second test release shows fine on xp32 and (generally)the text gets rendered much clearer than before.
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Can you send me the file?
Yes, but where should I send it? info@digitalfossils.com?
Hi rubberduck,
I didn't notice any flickering yet.
What graphics card / drivers do you have? What screen resolution are you using?
Okay, I get a short blink in two cases (once per NVil session):
1. If I press ALT for the first time during the session. I use ALT for Maya-like navigation.
2. If I change viewport rendering for the first time during the session (for example: from wireframe+shaded to shaded).
But I didn't have time to test it thoroughly. So it's possible that flickering might happen on other occasions or repeat itself.
The card I'm using is GTX660Ti 3GB.
What about Nvil start up time?
On my setup (which is quite quick with a fast SSD), the last 32bit Nvil took 5 seconds to load. The 64bit version now take over 9 seconds. That may not sound a long time, but my system/OS will cold boot in under 8 seconds. So for a modeling application to take longer to load than my PC cold booting is excessive. (other apps, such as Wings/blender take 1 second to load).
It takes about 14 seconds to load 64-bit NVil on my rig (32-bit version loads in about 9 seconds). The rig is very fast and NVil sits on SSD.
For comparison - both, Blender and Silo, start in one second.
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Yes, just send it to that address.
I have checked that the slow loading is due to the gui constructing. I'll look into that and see if it can be improved.
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Okay, scene sent.
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There's a lot of flickering when opening the material editor for the first time during the session.
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Hi IStonia
Managed to get 64 bit NVil running after installing SlimDX but it won't load any of my previous NVil files and won't create any primitives(tried cube and sphere but nothing appears in the viewport).
Cheers
Mal
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Ok, this update has fixed the file loading bug reported by rubberduck.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Jan-03-14.rar
Prerequisites : A need to download/install end user runtime(for slimDX) http://slimdx.org/download.php (the .net 2 download)
Hi IStonia
Managed to get 64 bit NVil running after installing SlimDX but it won't load any of my previous NVil files and won't create any primitives(tried cube and sphere but nothing appears in the viewport).
Cheers
Mal
Mal, can you make a video so I may have some idea what may go wrong? Also please try the latest update and see if it works.
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I now see the flickering when pressing F5 to enter Fullscreen. All overlays like the HUD but also the Axis symbol on the right blink rapidly for about 1-2 seconds until Fullscreen is established. I also notice long startup-times - up to 12 seconds (Jan 02 version on win7 64). An earlier 32 bit version needs 7 seconds on the same machine. I think it would look more attractive/professional when the whole initialization process was somehow hidden. So that one looked at the splashscreen (could someone please fix the transparency of that Logo image?) and maybe some neutral background graphic until everything is prepared. A compoarable logic could get applied to switching to fullscreen.
On startup one currently can follow the whole process - how a a quad viewport layout gets created at small scale first, then those viewports resize to the screen resolution, again later user preferences get read and the program figures to switch to a maximized viewport etc... On my machine the program "forgets" a minimized version of Smart Tips, although this panel is set to "never show" in View/Tool Helper Options (this is also the case in earlier 32 bit builds). Not a big issue but maybe there's potential for some cleanup.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25213665/screenshot_1182.jpg)
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In the 64 bit version I also see some shader-stair-stepping problems.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25213665/screenshot_1173.jpg)
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Ok, this update has fixed the file loading bug reported by rubberduck.
Super. Thank you!
In the 64 bit version I also see some shader-stair-stepping problems.
I saw this visual problem happen plenty of times in 32-bit version. Can be easier observed when an object is subdivided or is relatively high poly. It's caused by lights in the scene (Light Tool).
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Ok, I see this now for the first time. Looks like a resolution issue, no?
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There's a lot of flickering when opening the material editor for the first time during the session.
I was looking at this more closely.
It appears that when the material editor is enabled (this is from the "View-> windows"), the viewport goes blank 3 times (it changes quickly between drawn -> blank -> drawn -> blank -> drawn -> blank -> drawn). It does happen very quickly, that is why it looks like screen flicker.
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IStonia
With latest build(Jan 03) all previous files are now loading and the program seems to be running okay. Will let you know if I find any further problems.
Thanks
Mal
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Another update. Some improvement in keyboard handling. The loading time should be a little bit shorter.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Jan-04-14.rar
Prerequisites : A need to download/install end user runtime(for slimDX) http://slimdx.org/download.php (the .net 2 download)
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The loading time is 11 seconds now, so there is some improvement.
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Just wanted to quickly pop in and say - "Nvil x64!!! Woohoo!!!" Yeah, I'm at work and busy with other 3d tasks, but I did quickly import a(decimated)40k poly ZBrush model over to NVIL and toy around with Retopo mode for a few seconds.... and just, wow, I'm really excited to properly try this out later on. Before, due to poly constraints, retopo in NVil was never an option for me... but now, I'm getting very excited to think about the possibilities. Cheers ~J
*Update* Hells yeah - just tried again, and so far having no problems retopo-ing a 2m poly head model imported from ZBrush. Be sure to turn off edge visibility on the retopo reference mesh to save viewport performance. Also, I tried to import an 8million poly model, just for kicks, and had no luck... NVil didn't crash (which is better than I expected tbh), but it didn't display the model and it ran itself up to ~12gigabytes of ram. Anyhow - I don't have any existing projects where I'd expect to need to bring in a model that large... that was more for just testing limits.
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JTenebrous, if you also "Freeze" the reference object, you will get better performance in view navigation. Once the object is freezed, user can not interact with it through viewport so a lot of viewport related computation is not required.
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Okay, I get a short blink in two cases (once per NVil session):
1. If I press ALT for the first time during the session. I use ALT for Maya-like navigation.
I was also seeing the same, but now also see it after bringing up other windows (such as, for example, the spline option window or the instant help window. Bringing up those windows also gives screen flicker).
I was hoping this problem would be of been fixed, instead it is now worst on my setup.
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It doesn't happen to me at all. Does it happen only once?. Try load two NVils and see if it happens to the two at the same time.
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It doesn't happen to me at all.
Have you checked Nvil on win7 64 bit windows yet?
Maybe it is a similar mystery as the "Tab" key. It works on your setup, but not on other setups of users who posted to thread about the problem. (http://voidworld.cmcproductions.co.uk/index.php/topic,2100.0.html)
Does it happen only once?.
That is how it appeared to be in earlier builds of Nvil 64bit. But in the latest version it is happening more frequently. It is quite irritating after a short while.
Try load two NVils and see if it happens to the two at the same time.
Only flicker in one.
Have been playing more. If I do not press the "Alt" key at all, then there does not appear to be a problem. If for example, I use the alternate navigation keys, then it is OK. But if I press the "Alt" key, then I get screen flicker(screen going blank for a split second), it then makes using the "Box" tool(from visual tools) cause a screen flicker, then if I press "Alt" again after the creation of the box, again screen flicker.
Here is a very quick vid showing the issue.
It is a new config, new session.
The screen flickers(goes blank for a spit second) when I:-
Press "Alt"
Create "Box"
Press "Alt" again
Create "Spline"
Press "Alt" again.
https://www.mediafire.com/?8bkd106hrsk6tbt
To add:-
It certainly does look like a problem with the "Alt" key.
Probability is that when you changed the key handling due to the bug with "Alt" + "Space" sticking, that as increased the problem with the "Alt" key.
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Try this one
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Jan-06a-14.rar
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That is now looking good.
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Thanks IStonia!
Most of the flickering is gone now, but there's still some when opening Material Editor for the first time. NVil window goes blank once and then it redraws.
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I feel a little lag using the 64-bit version, like when I extrude or use any streamline tools nVil will lag for a moment.
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How do I know which version I am running? I'm running NVil on Win8 64Bit. So is automatically in 64bit mode?
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Yes, it is the same program and it is an automatically thing depends on the target CPU.
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I feel a little lag using the 64-bit version, like when I extrude or use any streamline tools nVil will lag for a moment.
Does it happen even if you are just working on a simple cube?
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Does it happen even if you are just working on a simple cube?
[/quote]
Yes.
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Can you make a clip to show how it happens?
Edit: Can you reboot your pc and see if it will get better?
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I did reboot it and nothing got better, I don't think I can make video because when I try to record I lag somewhat. BTW it happens when I first use the streamline tool but when I use it for a second time it does not lag, its like it is caching the streamline tool at first.
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While work continues on making NVIL 64bit, are there plans to introduce any elements of multi-threading capability? I ask this because I can open my task manager while running NVIL and see that it runs one thread at nearly full capacity most of the time (13% CPU usage on my i7 with multithreading enabled = 100% of one thread out of a possible 8 ), even in a scene with just a cube... just seems a bit of a shame that the other 87% of my resources are going largely unused. I know that this is not unique to NVIL or anything - the CAD programs I run still continue to expand their multithreading capability year after year. And, to be fair, NVIL x64 is running well for me so far in my very limited testing. Right now, even with a completely empty scene, I can make one thread of my i7 reach max load just by going to quad viewports in NVIL and waving the mouse around wildly for a few seconds - is that expected?
**Update1** Ha! Might help if I use the Edit>Options>SetNumberOfProcessors to greater than 1! :)
**Update2** Drats - it doesn't appear to work. If I set the number of processors to greater than 1, I don't notice my CPU usage increase beyond what it did before. If I restart NVIL, my number of processors returns back to 1 - my modified value is not saved.
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This is a video that shows:
- short lag when using extrude for the first time during the session (it also occurs in the first use of: inc/dec subdivision, toggle subdivision, creation of any primitive and probably in more functions);
- brief flicker when opening material editor for the first time during the session.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/39ytsyexe2ntz9z/delayExtrudeFlickerMaterialsEditor.mkv
It's nothing serious of course.
Arvin, do you get those delays once per session or every time you use extrude tool?
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- brief flicker when opening material editor for the first time during the session.
Yes, I am still seeing that. I also see it after I have created a primitive.
For example:-
(material window is un-docked and closed). Start Nvil.
Bring up material window: Screen flicker.
Close material window.
Create "Box"
Bring up material window: Screen flicker.
Close material window.
Create "Sphere"
Bring up material window: Screen flicker.
Close material window.
Create "different type of primitive not created before"
Bring up material window: Screen flicker.
I did put the material window back to docked/pinned to stop the problem, but I had forgotten how irritating it can be waiting those 2-3 seconds for the pinned windows to scroll back, and while scrolling back stopping other functions such as (for simple example) vieport navigation and moving objects.
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After trying some different configs for Material window position, I had it docked under "Scene Explorer"(scene explorer docked to left). After closing the material window I can no longer bring it back, it should re-appear docked again, but it does not show at all.
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Yes, I am still seeing that. I also see it after I have created a primitive.
For example:-
(material window is un-docked and closed). Start Nvil.
Bring up material window: Screen flicker.
Close material window.
Create "Box"
Bring up material window: Screen flicker.
Close material window.
Create "Sphere"
Bring up material window: Screen flicker.
Close material window.
Create "different type of primitive not created before"
Bring up material window: Screen flicker.
I just tried this Steve, but on my configuration I only get one screen flicker from the material editor - when I open it for the first time.
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I just tried this Steve, but on my configuration I only get one screen flicker from the material editor - when I open it for the first time.
I am starting to think this is yet another problem due to my using (docked) custom windows/toolbars. I will look at a new config.
Thank you for testing.
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Yes, another problem due to docked custom windows/toolbars. I have had similar problems with the toolbars for a long time now. IMHO, the UI really needs work.
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It appears that the material window is now lost with my current config. How very irritating.
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I do not use because of the slow release NVIL and clamped in the "W" of a second thought before you move http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoFtjFi4bm0&feature=youtu.be
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Thanks for the video. I think you may have this option on, Edit > Options > Real time selection enabled. For heavy scene, this option should be turn off. Otherwise it will cause performance problem in marquee selection. Yeah, multi threading currently is not available.
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Also turn off this option will help, Edit > Options > Subobject Occlusion Selection Enabled.
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Thank you, yes there is a significant performance boost, but it is not enough for kanfortnoy work. Thank you so much, I waited a very long program's 64bit version, nadeyu soon be able to use it for work.
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Everything seems to be working well here ... no flickering that I've noticed so far with the latest release (Jan 11, 2014).
Win 8.1 64bit, Intel Core i7-2600K CPU @ 3.7 GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD Radeon HD6950.
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I popped in just to say that I'm very grateful for the 64-bit version, IStonia. And oh boy, it was fast. When you said you're working on it and that it is not an easy task, I thought that we might expect it in several months time or something like that. Yet it's here and despite some minor issues it's working great. :)
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Sub-d problem, I think this is a problem in view
(http://cdn.joxi.ru/uploads/prod/2014/01/16/e45/303/92a87881b6f92d71db2bdc1648fc4820c11e3029.png)
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I think you may have a big Ngon. Can you send me the scene file to info@digitalfossils.com?
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Similar problems arise on the primitive
(http://cdn.joxi.ru/uploads/prod/2014/01/16/48d/3fd/eb90d1611a47bdb6a25f15b983edd5e494448ee1.png)
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I import your obj file and this what I got, it is fine, see the attachment. Which update did you use?. Your graphic card may be not DirectX9 compatible. Was it good before? Have you tried restart your computer?
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My Graphic Card gtx 780. Two computer HD 7660G + 7670M. Yes restart computer. NVil Update Jan 11 2014. Before this was problem.
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Which is the last update when it appeared good?
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Hard to answer.
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Was it good at some stage for updates since Jan-06-2014? Can your try any of the updates of last year's and see if it is good?
I seems to me the problem is from the graphic card. The geometry data was corrupted or not read properly.
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checked everywhere the same problem
NVil-Sep-18-13
NVil-Aug-14-13
NVil-Apr-03-13
i set last drive graphic card
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Does the problem appear recently and it was good before?
What do you mean by "i set last drive graphic card"? Did you mean you have set your graphic card recently and then the problem occurs?
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The problem was always. I updated the drivers for the video card.
sorry for my english
using Google translate.
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In one of your posts, there is a video. The model in it appears to be fine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV8kAFZd9ck&feature=player_detailpage
Do you still have the model? If yes can you try to load it?
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There's a big mesh after decimation master.
The problem occurs when you use subdivision.
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The problem occurs when you use subdivision.
Ok. Can you create a simple box, subdivide it to subdivision 1, Geometry > Sudivision > Level 1. Then do Geometry > Sudivision > Collapse Subdivision. If the problem occurs in this testing, can you make a video of this testing so I can see how it happens?
Edit: I just want to check if your NVil setting causes the problem. Can your remove your current config files. Make sure you save a copy of your files before you do that so you can restore back later.
C:\Users\UserName\AppData\Roaming\DigitalFossils\NVil\User Settings
After the config files removed. Start NVil and see if the problem gone.
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There's a big mesh after decimation master.
The problem occurs when you use subdivision.
Wait, are you trying to subdivide a model after it's been decimated (you're referring to "Decimation Master", the ZBrush plugin, correct?)? If that's the case, you're definitely going to have problems - decimated meshes are not suitable for subdivision as decimated meshes are triangulated whereas SubD works best with quads (triangles should be kept to a minimum). If you need a lower poly count mesh from ZBrush that is suitable for SubD, you need to retopologize it... there are many methods to do this in ZBrush.
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something strange is happening :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p3hbTHE3CM
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JTenebrous, on the model I tried sub-d. decimation master before I use retopo
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something strange is happening :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p3hbTHE3CM
I can see the problem occurs when you use hotkey to toggle subdivision to subd level 2 and it works fine when you use menu to set to subd level 1.
Can you also try this two methods and see what may happen?
-Geometry > Subdivision > Toggle Sudivsion.
-Geometry > Subdivision > Level 2.
Can you sent me your config files so I maybe able to produce the bug?
I need to go for sleep now.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1SM-cDpWwA&feature=youtu.be
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It seems the problem only occurs if subd level goes up to level 2. I still can't tell what went wrong, it just works fine on me.
I asked you to send me your config files in my last post. If it is your settings cause the problem, it would be very easy for me to pin point the bug.
Also can you create a simple box 1x1x1 with just 4 polygons. Subdivide it to level 2, then collapse the subdividion, Geometry > Subdivision > Collapse Sudivision. If the problem occurs, save it to a vws scene file and send it to me so I can see if I can get some clues to find out the bug.
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problem persists after collapse http://joxi.ru/UqLYUhjKTJAGE64wRnE
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I have been able to reproduce the bug by using your settings. Just allow me some time.
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I have found the bug. You have this option checked, Edit > Preference > Options > Subdivision smoothing same as base mesh. You can turn this option off. I have yet to fix the bug.
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Here is a slight delay in the camera transformation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9Zi599a65c&feature=youtu.be
Hopefully soon performance outgrowths.
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And if you press another button mouse without releasing the first all works quickly
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The subdivision bug is fixed. Also view navigation performance in object mode is improved.
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I am still seeing problems with the keyboard inputs. Keys will unexpectedly stop working with a need to restart Nvil. But even more concerning is the fact other applications (and windows explorer) are then also having problems with keyboard input (probably due to nvil using global hook).
I need to ask as to what dll is being used by Nvil for the hook procedure "WH_Keyboard_LL"(low level global keyboard hook)?
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But even more concerning is the fact other applications (and windows explorer) are then also having problems with keyboard input (probably due to nvil using global hook).
I can confirm this behavior. Yesterday I shut down Nvil but my left Shift key still registered in Windows as pressed down. When selecting files in Windows Explorer just by LMB clicking, the OS "thought" I would like to add to the selection - such never happens even when accidentally having CAPS Lock on, it must be Nvil causing this. I recorded a gif which shows this error, a keystroke visualizer tells that Left Shift is pressed althouth I don't even touch the keyboard. It on my other computer - I can post it later you if you want.
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I am still seeing problems with the keyboard inputs. Keys will unexpectedly stop working with a need to restart Nvil. But even more concerning is the fact other applications (and windows explorer) are then also having problems with keyboard input (probably due to nvil using global hook).
I need to ask as to what dll is being used by Nvil for the hook procedure "WH_Keyboard_LL"(low level global keyboard hook)?
The hook is in the .exe file. I have tried to improve it. Please try this one.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Jan-24-14.rar
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The hook is in the .exe file.
From my limited understanding, a "Global hook" should always be in a .dll.
I made a quick search to check:-
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms644959%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
A global hook monitors messages for all threads in the same desktop as the calling thread. A thread-specific hook monitors messages for only an individual thread. A global hook procedure can be called in the context of any application in the same desktop as the calling thread, so the procedure must be in a separate DLL module. A thread-specific hook procedure is called only in the context of the associated thread. If an application installs a hook procedure for one of its own threads, the hook procedure can be in either the same module as the rest of the application's code or in a DLL. If the application installs a hook procedure for a thread of a different application, the procedure must be in a DLL.
WH_Keyboard_LL (The hook type you are using) is a "Global Hook"
Maybe you should be using "WH_Keyboard"? which can be either thread specific or global.
-----------------------
I have been searching for more info, the more info I find, the more warnings I see against using global hooks, as they can cause conflicts/issues (as we are seeing with Nvil).
I have been checking all the other applications I use, and none of them use the low level global hook you are attempting to use.
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I have tried to improve it. Please try this one.
I do not see how changes would help, unless you implement the hook correctly.
I had a quick test, and still similar problems.
At one time, I would only see this problem after using Nvil for about 40+ minutes, which then forced me to restart Nvil, or even have to re-boot windows if Nvil had corrupted windows explorer shell.
But now it is happening almost straight away which makes Nvil unusable for me (even with a new config)
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Try this one. It uses application level key hijack so it wont' interfere with the system. But "Shift+NumPadKey" combination is no longer available as I couldn't find a possible way. If any one still wants the low level keyboard hooking, I can consider an option.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Jan-25-14.rar
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Try this one.
Thank you for taking the time to implement an alternative to global hook.
I am limited to what monitoring I can make on my current win7 64 setup due to default KPP(patchguard), but initial usage of Nvil is looking better, as it is no longer interfering with key-bindings of a background programme I use.
I will be doing some modeling later, so will see how Nvil is with prolonged use.
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Try this one. It uses application level key hijack so it wont' interfere with the system. But "Shift+NumPadKey" combination is no longer available as I couldn't find a possible way. If any one still wants the low level keyboard hooking, I can consider an option.
Thanks IStonia! I can't say yet whether this actually solved the problem (as I could not identify
a pattern causing the global stickiness). But I sure can live with Shift+Numpad no more being map-able,you still offer tons more of options than every other app I know.
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Cool. I've had strange keyboard issues with NVIL for ages, but have never been able to pin them down in a reproduceable way. Downloading this new version now - shift-numpad can easily be lived without.
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"Shift+NumPadKey" is now available in the Jan-26-2014 update.
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In the version just prior to the one you posted moments ago, I noticed within 1 minute of playing with it that pressing the Tab key once(to tab between fields) resulted in TWO tab presses being registered. Will download the Jan 26 version and see if the problem still exists.
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Pressing "Tab" in the newly released version (Jan-26-2014) causing Nvil to crash.
(Nvil has stopped working:- Event name: CLR20r3)
Pressing other keys, such as "Spacebar" or "Shift" also make Nvil crash.
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Pressing "Tab" in the newly released version (Jan-26-2014) causing Nvil to crash.
(Nvil has stopped working:- Event name: CLR20r3)
Pressing other keys, such as "Spacebar" or "Shift" also make Nvil crash.
Does it still happen? Does the Jan-25 update have the same problem? The two versions are basically the same, just a couple two lines differences.
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I have not had much time to fully check, but..
With Jan-25 build, I only see a problem with the "Tab" key, where it will tab across 2 input fields with just one press of "Tab". All other keys appear to be OK up to now.
With Jan-26 build, [with new config], it looks like any key (on release) causes Nvil to crash. For example. If I press "Spacebar" (with default new config), the window under mouse pointer will maximize, but when I then release the "Spacebar" nvil crashes. If I pres "Alt + LMB" I can rotate viewport, I can release LMB and still no problem, but when "Alt" released, then crash.
I can press any key without a problem, but when the key released, Nvil will crash.
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I have fixed the double Tab bug and renewed the Jan-26 update silently.
I have not had much time to fully check, but..
With Jan-25 build, I only see a problem with the "Tab" key, where it will tab across 2 input fields with just one press of "Tab". All other keys appear to be OK up to now.
With Jan-26 build, [with new config], it looks like any key (on release) causes Nvil to crash. For example. If I press "Spacebar" (with default new config), the window under mouse pointer will maximize, but when I then release the "Spacebar" nvil crashes. If I pres "Alt + LMB" I can rotate viewport, I can release LMB and still no problem, but when "Alt" released, then crash.
I can press any key without a problem, but when the key released, Nvil will crash.
It does not happen to me at all. Can you try this debug version? The key up processing is disabled.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Jan-26a-14.rar
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The download link is giving me a "Page not found" error.
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Can you try it again?
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Jan-26a-14.rar
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Still same crash with debug build:-
(http://i.imgur.com/WspXn5q.jpg)
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Can your try these two
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Jan-26b-14.rar
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Jan-26c-14.rar
Also can you try Jan-25 update and see if it's the same.
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Can your try these two
Both versions crashing as before, with same error message as shown earlier.
Also can you try Jan-25 update and see if it's the same.
I informed you in an earlier post, that version is OK apart from the "Tab" key which tabs 2 input fields with one press of the "Tab" key. I have not yet seen any other problems with that build, but have only used it for a short time.
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I decided to make a quick check on windows XP 32 bit (I really dislike installing .net framework on that setup, but was curious), with build Jan-26a-14. It does not crash, but the key input gets stuck.
So for example, I press "Spacebar" and the view-port window will maximize, but after releasing the spacebar, it still shows (in view-port display) as pressed.
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I decided to make a quick check on windows XP 32 bit (I really dislike installing .net framework on that setup, but was curious), with build Jan-26a-14. It does not crash, but the key input gets stuck.
So for example, I press "Spacebar" and the view-port window will maximize, but after releasing the spacebar, it still shows (in view-port display) as pressed.
Jan-26a-14 is a debug version, the key up is not processed. That's why.
In the Jan-26b version, I didn't modify any thing in the message filter. Just return it as is. If it crashes, Jan-25 would also crash too. I suspect that there may be something changed in your system, that's why I ask you to run Jan-25 again.
Can you try these two?
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Jan-26d-14.rar
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Jan-26f-14.rar
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In the Jan-26b version, I didn't modify any thing in the message filter. Just return it as is. If it crashes, Jan-25 would also crash too. I suspect that there may be something changed in your system, that's why I ask you to run Jan-25 again.
The Jan-25 is not crashing. I am currently using it.
But with you blaming my system yet again. I will let others check the builds.
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I've only had time to use Jan-25 version for an hour or so, but it looks like sticky keys and all the problems they caused are finally gone.
Generally, it seems to be a very solid build, with one exception. When I press the TAB key, it registers multiple times. Even a brief tap is like multiple taps. And if I hold this key, it traverses through input boxes like crazy.
I have yet to try one of those newest builds.
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26a - crash when releasing keys (letters, modifiers, probably also numericals):
Problem Event Name: CLR20r3
Problem Signature 01: nvil 1.0.exe
Problem Signature 02: 2.3.5138.18134
Problem Signature 03: 52e2d55c
Problem Signature 04: NVil 1.0
Problem Signature 05: 2.3.5138.18134
Problem Signature 06: 52e2d55c
Problem Signature 07: 42
Problem Signature 08: 89
Problem Signature 09: System.OverflowException
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48
Locale ID: 1045
26b - same thing
26c - also crashes on key-press
26d - doesn't crash, but all keyboard keys simply don't work. Only mouse buttons are registered.
26f - 404
I'll stick to Jan-25 version for now. I really like it and would probably love it if it wasn't that TAB key problem.
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What is 404?
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What is 404?
404 (Page Not Found) Error
The link is broken.
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Will you be available for a while? I want to find out what's wrong with Jan-26 asap. It seems only happen to 64-bit windows. What I remember is very little changes from Jan-15 to Jan-26, but I could have modified something else by accident. I don't have the Jan-25 code anymore.
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I'll be available in about 8 hours. :(
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That's cool. Can you test this one?
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Jan-26f-14.rar
and this one
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Jan-26g-14.rar
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26f seems OK. No crashes, all keys work again and TAB issue has been fixed.
26g crash on key-press (again: system overflow exception).
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26f has no hook at all and you will see flickers when using Alt key.
Can you try this one, it should be the same as Jan-25?
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Jan-26h-14.rar
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Indeed, there's is flickering in 26f.
Some tests:
----- 26f and 26h -----
--- A
1. Start NVil.
2. Press ALT to navigate. There's no flickering (let's call it "blinking" from now on) in 26h, however as you mentioned - it blinks in 26f.
--- B
1. Start NVil.
2. Open "Materials" hot window. The screen blinks once.
3. Close the window.
4. Press ALT to navigate. The screen blinks once, although not 100% of the time(!).
5. Release ALT and press it again. No blinking.
--- C
1. Start NVil
2. Enter radial menu (SHIFT+CTRL+RMB) and choose cube primitive creation options. The screen blinks once.
3. Close the window.
4. Open radial menu and choose cylinder primitive creation options. The screen does not blink.
5. Same with other primitive creation windows.
6. Open "Materials" hot window. The screen blinks once.
7. Close it.
8. Again, open primitive creation window. No blinking.
9. Open "Materials" hot window. No blinking.
10. Press ALT to navigate. No blinking.
----- Jan 25 -----
Underlined text means different behaviour from 26f and 26h versions.
--- A
1. Start NVil.
2. Press ALT to navigate. No blinking.
---B
1. Start NVil.
2. Open "Materials" hot window. The screen blinks once.
3. Close the window.
4. Press ALT to navigate. It doesn't blink..
5. Release ALT and press it again. No blinking.
--- C
1. Start NVil
2. Enter radial menu (SHIFT+CTRL+RMB) and choose cube primitive creation options. No blinking Actually I tested it again and it blinks. There's some degree of inconsistency with that blinking. Sometimes I get it, sometimes not. Therefore I can't guarantee 100% reliability of those tests.
3. Close the window.
4. Open radial menu and choose cylinder primitive creation options. The screen does not blink.
5. Same with other primitive creation windows.
6. Open "Materials" hot window. The screen blinks once.
7. Close it.
8. Again, open primitive creation window. No blinking.
9. Open "Materials" hot window. No blinking.
10. Press ALT to navigate. No blinking.
But blinking doesn't really bother me too much as it occurs only one or two times during the session. I'm more concerned about those sticky keys. I'll be doing some modeling in 26h now, so I'll be keep my eyes open for any "sticky" trouble. ;) I hope they are really gone.
P. S. TAB key is OK in 26h.
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So 26h does not crash. Now I know what causes the crash. The problem is that 26h does not handle the "Shift+NumPadKey" combination just like Jan-25.
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Can you test this one and see if it crashes?
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Jan-26i-14.rar
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26i crashes on key release.
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Can you test this one?
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Jan-26j-14.rar
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Ok, this one doesn't crash.
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Ok, this one doesn't crash.
That's great! Can you check the "Shift+NumPandKey" combinations? If it works, I've made it.
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I don't have anything bound to them, but when I press NumPad keys and SHIFT, the combination shows up on HUD, so I assume it works.
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Hold on. They show up on HUD, but I can't bind them in the "Customize Tools" window.
EDITED:
Okay, binding was a little bit tricky. SHIFT+NumKeys won't work when pressed in "Select Key" window, so I had to define the shortcut with a mouse, by clicking appropriate buttons on NVil's on-screen keyboard. 8)
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Yeah, it seems working. I need to see how it works on other people's system.
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Ok, this one doesn't crash.
Can you please check. Some keys are sticking on my setup.
Left
Right
Up
Down
Delete
Insert
Home
End
Page up
Page down
Others appear to be OK.
The numpad. With num-lock on, the keys show as expected. With num-lock off, they show as if shift is also pressed (possibly intentional)
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You're right. They're sticking on mine too. I didn't notice it because I don't use that side of keyboard.
Also, it's impossible to release them by tapping them again. Restarting NVil is the only thing that helps here.
I just checked the Jan-25 version and the keys you mentioned don't stick.
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Also, it's impossible to release them by tapping them again. Restarting NVil is the only thing that helps here.
You can move focus out of Nvil window. (although it is certainly not something I would want to have to do all the time).
For example: Press "Left" and it sticks. Click on one of the top drop down menu's in Nvil (such as "File"), do not select anything, just move mouse pointer back into one of Nvil windows and mouse click. Key is unstuck. Or, you can mouse click outside of Nvil, such as on windows tray, then mouse click back in Nvil.
I just checked the Jan-25 version and the keys you mentioned don't stick.
That build I find is running quite well up to now. I may now stay with that build.
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Well, I think I have to give up the "Shift+NumPadKey" Combination. There is a message I can not read at key up event or it will crash on you two if I do. It seems a bug in you two's or even the whole 64-bit windows system. It may even happen on key down event on some one's system. Who knows. I wonder why other people are so quiet.
I would recommend this update as it has got some bugs fixed. eg. the Tab. Otherwise it is the same as Jan-25.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Jan-26h-14.rar
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Can you post the current version on first post so we don't need to dig the thread to get the download. Thanks.
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You can always get the newest version from here.
http://voidworld.cmcproductions.co.uk/index.php/board,2.0.html
All the versions from Jan 2014 can run as 64-bit app. The program is actually not 64-bit specific. It can run as both 64-bit/32-bit applications depending on the target cpu.
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Can some one test this version on 64-bit system? See if it will crash on key down/up events. If it does not crash, please check if the "Shift+NumPandkey" works correctly.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Jan-29a-14.rar
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- No crashes on keyDown/Up;
- keys: Left, Right, Up, Down, Delete, Insert, Home, End, Page up, Page down - not sticky;
- SHIFT+NumPad combinations seem to be working correctly.
:)
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Can some one test this version on 64-bit system? See if it will crash on key down/up events. If it does not crash, please check if the "Shift+NumPandkey" works correctly.
Looking good.
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Can you test this one on 64-bit system?
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Jan-31a-14.rar
See if key board control is correct. And "Shif+NumPadKey".
Also see if the shell tool bug in composite tool is fixed.
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Hi IStonia,
Initially (only quick tests), keyboard control looks OK. The problem with "P_Extrude_shell" also appears to be fixed.
A new problem is with grid snapping. [new config] Create Box (or any primitive/object). Enable grid snapping. Move box with manipulator. If you move manipulator too quickly, box will shoot off into distance.
I will test more.
The spline problems (I reported to forum) appear to be resolved now, including the redraw issue.
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Initially (only quick tests), keyboard control looks OK. The problem with "P_Extrude_shell" also appears to be fixed.
Same here. Thanks for fixing P_Extrude_Shell.
A new problem is with grid snapping. [new config] Create Box (or any primitive/object). Enable grid snapping. Move box with manipulator. If you move manipulator too quickly, box will shoot off into distance.
I'm not able to reproduce it. The primitive sticks to manipulator no matter how fast or chaotically I move it.
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A new problem is with grid snapping. [new config] Create Box (or any primitive/object). Enable grid snapping. Move box with manipulator. If you move manipulator too quickly, box will shoot off into distance.
I'm not able to reproduce it. The primitive sticks to manipulator no matter how fast or chaotically I move it.
I am only seeing (but still seeing) that problem with the latest test version (Jan-31a).
Quick vid showing issue:-
https://www.mediafire.com/?g3awjuiv34jzv9v
-----------------------
Now fixed, thank you.
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It is fixed.
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Hello IStonia.
I'm having this problem with keys sticking again. It happens if I load a hi-poly reference mesh for retopologisation. I think the bigger the polycount, the greater probability of stuck keys, but I have not verified it yet.
It's mostly CTRL combinations that get stuck.
Video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/yu66aihqgxl69bp/stuckKeys.mp4?dl=1
(Download it for full HQ resolution)
Also, from time to time I'm getting some strange text in the title window, like "192 End" instead of "NVil 1.0 (build date): filename.extension". If I save my scene at this point, the strange text is replaced by the correct one. You can observe it on the video too. The title change happens at 0:56 when I hover over close button of the "Materials" hot window. At first it changes for a fraction of a second to "91 Start" but immediately after to "192 End".
Also, do note that all thumbnails from the "Materials" window are blank. This is the first time I see it happening.
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Now it says "784 End".
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Try this
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Aug-02-14.rar
The title text bug should be fixed.
The sticky key problem is more difficult to fix. Can you easily reproduce it?
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Hi rubberDuck,
Looking at your vid, what streamline tool functions do you have bound to "ctrl" key? (at approx 12 sec into vid, just before "combine" popup shows, at the top left of screen I see "New Tool_06 (Ctrl)"
Off-topic.
For your vids, you may want to look at "Handbreak" (http://handbrake.fr/). It will reduce your vids down to small size without loss of quality)
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Try this
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Aug-02-14.rar
The title text bug should be fixed.
The sticky key problem is more difficult to fix. Can you easily reproduce it?
Thank you IStonia, the title bug is gone now. :)
Sticky keys seem to occur on random basis, so to reproduce them is very tricky. And to be honest, I didn't have problems with them until several days ago.
Sometimes, like right now, it's working perfectly fine - and I have the scene from the video opened for testing. Maybe it's because I have Aug-02-14 installed now. Perhaps it won't stick any more? But in previous version once it started sticking, it continued to do so. Usually when I was in the middle of something.
Hmm... Perhaps it's related to how much time passes since the application start?
Or maybe it's because when working I constantly switch between various programs? I noticed that from time to time NVil's window, when restored from minimised state or when brought to foreground after being covered by another window, stays completely blank. Usually NVil redraws the viewport after several seconds, but sometimes I need to restart the program.
Maybe some corruption happens if NVil doesn't stay in focus?
Hi rubberDuck,
Looking at your vid, what streamline tool functions do you have bound to "ctrl" key? (at approx 12 sec into vid, just before "combine" popup shows, at the top left of screen I see "New Tool_06 (Ctrl)"
Steve, it's a CTRL+W combination under which I have all welding and merging tools. In this context it was "Object Shortcut Tools >> Combine(Merge Meshes)". I forgot to name this StreamLine tool, hence the "New_Tool_05".
And under CTRL I have built-in "StreamLine Engine Tools -> Tweak".
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I am getting similar issues, with sticking hotkeys. Ctrl sometimes, sometimes another key. I can resolving by pressing the key that's 'stuck' which then unsticks it.
Also, I get similar issues with the screen not updating when I tumble or make changes after leaving the program for a while. To fix it, I can usually just switch to another application and then switch back and I will then see the changes I've made.
Last, and this is problem I haven't seen in a few builds (I've been using the updated builds that Steve has been testing) But I would have a problem where Nvil didn't read as opened on my quick launch toolbar, so I'd keep pressing the icon, only to find that I had opened several instances of the program whatever app I was already using. I wouldn't see Nvil until I closed or minimized everything above it. This one hasn't happened in a little while, so it might be fixed already.
Thanks!
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Hi rubberDuck,
Steve, it's a CTRL+W combination under which I have all welding and merging tools. In this context it was "Object Shortcut Tools >> Combine(Merge Meshes)". I forgot to name this StreamLine tool, hence the "New_Tool_05".
And under CTRL I have built-in "StreamLine Engine Tools -> Tweak".
I have seen issues before when binding the "Ctrl" key to tools/functions. As example, I made "Disable Snapping Temporarily" bound to the "Ctrl" key, but after doing so, the Snap view tools ("Snap View (Ctrl+Space)" and "Snap View on Rotating (Ctrl)") no longer functioned correctly.
For your "Streamline tool" > "Tweak", what mode(s) is it active in?
-------------------
I forgot to ask. How do you have your "New_Tool_5" set up?. (where are the tools/functions placed in the streamline tool?).
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For your "Streamline tool" > "Tweak", what mode(s) is it active in?
-------------------
I forgot to ask. How do you have your "New_Tool_5" set up?. (where are the tools/functions placed in the streamline tool?).
Steve, my "Streamline tool > Tweak" looks like this:
LMB Tool: Generic Tools >> Tweak_Move
MMB Tool: Generic Tools >> Tweak_Scale
RMB Tool: Generic Tools >> Tweak_Rotate
Redirect: Vertex Shortcut Tools >> Tweak
The "New_Tool_5" set-up:
(SplineVertex) -> EMPTY
(Vertex)
NMB: Vertex Tools >> Vertex_Weld
LMB: Vertex Tools >> Vertex_Weld
On Tapped: Subobject Shortcut Tools >> Weld to Nearest
(Edge)
NMB: Edge Tools >> Edge_Bridge#
LMB: Edge Tools >> Edge_Bridge_Single#
MMB: Edge Tools >> Edge_Bridge_Multi(NoBreak)#
On Tapped: Edge Shortcut Tools >> Bridge
(Polygon)
LMB: Polygon Tools >> Polygon_Create
On Tapped: Subobject Shortcut Tools >> Collapse
(Mesh)
On Tapped: Mesh Shortcut Tools >> Combine
(Object)
On Tapped: Object Shortcut Tools >> Combine(Merge Meshes)
On Delayed: Object Shortcut Tools >> Combine
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So far so good. I haven't experienced any key-stickiness since I installed the August version. Thanks IStonia!