NVil Forum
General Category => Bug Reports => Topic started by: samardac on March 26, 2014, 10:37:53 am
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Some times I have big problems trying to select objects especially small.
For example look at screenshot I have no chance to select selected object. It does not select at all. I could select it only by select all objects and the deselect all that I do not need.
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I also have this issue.
Also did you know if you click mmb, you will cycle the selections. Sometimes this helps if you select the big object, and want to select the small object in front.
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Yep, I tried it too, but it also do not work. Today I had this issue very often it make me very nervous...)
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Cycle the selections, how it works can not understand?
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if you have objects that are overlapping in the viewport, select just one, then just click middle mouse button. This will switch the selection to the next object behind the current selection. Can be usefel actually.
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Thanx, got it) But still would be good to fix this problem with object select.
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Is it possible to show the problem in a video clip with simple objects? I need to be able to reproduce the bug before I can fix it.
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I tried to reproduce this problem with simplу objcts but I failed. I tried on objects that I have preveously problems but it also works good. Looks like it some times work sometimes no. I can assume that it depends also from best fit. I'll capture this problem next time I meat it, and I'll upload the project.
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I wonder if it has something to do with camera clipping and the focal point of the camera interfering.
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This is how it happens:
http://youtu.be/kYYs8LVdcKI
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Here another example... Aa you can see after I execute - select all mesh objects everything began to work..
http://youtu.be/XPIIq2spy6M
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Yeah I get this and other viewport bugs as well. We need to find a way to get Istonia fully funded so he has more time :( The poor guy works on this on top of his full time work.
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samardac, you may have had some of the objects freezed. If an object is freezed, you can't interact with it through viewport.
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IStonia, no I never used this freez function.
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Is it possible to reproduce the bug from a saved scene file? Also, if it happens, can you check in the "Object List" in "View Explorer" to see whether the unselectable object is in a special color indicates it is freezed?
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Istonia, no it is not freezed, I checked in Object list, there is no letter F and it is the same color as others. Also when I can not select it in viewport I can freally select in in object list. I'll try to save this to see if it can be reproduced.
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Maybe I can get some clues if you know what you have done to the objects before it happens.
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Actually I also have this happens many times...
I record the video and is here: https://vimeo.com/90398262 (https://vimeo.com/90398262)
You can use this file to test: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1468830/examples/Yashica.12.vws (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1468830/examples/Yashica.12.vws)
I think it happens when I select a large object then try to select smaller one.
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miica, thanks in my case when I save I can not reproduce this bug.
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Try this
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Mar-26-14.rar
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@samardac
just happens to have one scene that is more sensitive to this bug. I check out some of my other scenes, they doesn't have clicking problems as severe as the Yashica scene though.
Thanks so much for fixing the bug Kun, I think it works now.
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IStonia, looks like it works, but I have to test it during work. Did you understand what it was?
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It was a transformation bug.
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Still the same problem:
http://we.tl/IIaaHfP6pt
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I played with it but couldn't see any problem.
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very strange. I just record this video, it do not wont to work...
Check it:
http://youtu.be/hIVPbJYLkHU
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Does it happen every time like that? It just works fine on my setup. Can you send me your config files?
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For this project it happens every time...
Wich config file I have to send?
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All the files in this folder
C:\Users\UserName\AppData\Roaming\DigitalFossils\NVil\User Settings
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These are files:
http://we.tl/3oxQ6LdhRk
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I can see the problem now. Will fix it when I have some time tonight.
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Good :)
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try this
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-Mar-28-14.rar
It was a bug. I checked your clip plane settings. It is 0.1/10000. That is very very extreme. It exposed the bug. But you may encounter render problems with this setting due to the z buffer limitation.
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Thank you, I'll try.
What is the good settings for clip plane? WHat render problem you mean?
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I set Clip plane to 0.1 and 100. But in ortho view when I zoom out object become to diaspear, is it how it should be?
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WHat render problem you mean?
From what I see.
If "near plane scale" too small or "far clip scale" too big, then hidden(from view) edges are rendered.
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I set Clip plane to 0.1 and 100. But in ortho view when I zoom out object become to diaspear, is it how it should be?
I find view in ortho can be problematic with new defaults.(front clipping plane moves toward model and clips the front).
Try:-
Disable "View > Advance Focus Point On Orthographic View Zooming"
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Hi IStonia,
I have never understood your reasoning of how the clipping planes have been implemented.
Would it not be better to have a more logical way of clipping, by setting a distance from camera for front/back clipping (as I see in other apps), rather than this calculation of a scale value x distance of camera from focus point.
For a clipping plane to move in such a manner, of zooming in can clip the back of the model, and zooming out can clip the front of the model, it is rather confusing.
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Hi IStonia,
I have never understood your reasoning of how the clipping planes have been implemented.
Would it not be better to have a more logical way of clipping, by setting a distance from camera for front/back clipping (as I see in other apps), rather than this calculation of a scale value x distance of camera from focus point.
For a clipping plane to move in such a manner, of zooming in can clip the back of the model, and zooming out can clip the front of the model, it is rather confusing.
For each view port, you can uncheck the "App auto set" and "App auto set far plane base on scene geometry" options. Then you can set your near/far clip plane values which are distances from camera.
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For each view port, you can uncheck the "App auto set" and "App auto set far plane base on scene geometry" options. Then you can set your near/far clip plane values which are distances from camera.
That can work, but brings in issues.
As simple example.
(Auto clipping off in all views)
I have perspective set to "Near = 0.1m", "Zoom to fit" any object/sub_object below that size will be clipped (I usually work 1 unit = 1 meter). So I need to decrease that size, but if I decrease to say, 0.001, then all hidden edges(edges that should not be seen from view) on object are shown. Not a good way to work. (I could set it to 0.01, which helps while zoomed in, but when zooming out, again all hidden edges are shown).
Here near set to 0.1m (but zooming in to small detail causes that detail to be clipped)
(http://i.imgur.com/0C4J4FW.jpg)
Change near to 0.001 and all edges on object can now be seen, as if object now semi transparent.
(http://i.imgur.com/GpDW0E4.jpg)
If I was to leave the near at 0.1, then far needs to remain below (which can depend on size of model/scene) 500m, or again, hidden lines are shown.
In ortho view. If you zoom to fit small sized selection, it will be clipped regardless of how small the near clip plane is set. Due to new option of "Advance Focus Point On Orthographic View zooming" which is enabled, zooming out will not remove clipping(front of model will remain clipped).
I think it would also be helpful if users knew which clip settings adjust which view, as it is, there is nothing to indicate which clip settings is for which view.
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This is the z buffer issue. Before a pixel is rendered, there is a z buffer comparison to see if it can be rendered. If its z buffer depth is smaller than previous rendered pixel, it can be rendered. The problem occurs when its z buffer depth is the same as previous rendered pixel. This is what happens if the newplane/farplane ratio is tool small. The z buffer depth value of render points of objects that are far away from new-clip-plane are more likely to have the same z buffer depth value as z buffer depth range is limited.
"I think it would also be helpful if users knew which clip settings adjust which view, as it is, there is nothing to indicate which clip settings is for which view", when you bring up the "Preference" form, the border of viewport setting control of the current selected viewport is 3d.
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This is the z buffer issue.
But that is only a technical explanation for the problem, the problem is still there.
I got my setting how I like them a while ago, so I do not have a problem. But new users may look and try different settings, and see the problems that they do not see in other applications when dealing with clipping planes.
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The problem will always be there because there is no unlimited z buffer for graphic cards. I have no idea how other apps handle this.
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With the Z-fighting I see, I guess you are using a 16 bit Z-buffer.
What is the depth of buffer you use, 16 / 24 / 32 bit?
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Hay people, I'm simple user I have no Idea what you are talking about) Tell me pleas How I have to set my Nvil to have no problem in this area?
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Hi samardac,
Change clipping back to defaults. In most cases that should be OK.
If you get unwanted clipping in orthographic views, try disable "View > Advance Focus Point On Orthographic View Zooming"
Clipping defaults pic attached:-
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Thanks)
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This problem irritating
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY3zKuZ3_zI&feature=youtu.be
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Which update did you use? Can you send me the file for testing?
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No, I resave it in OBJ, and when I opened it in such Nvil problemmy was not. Perhaps this is a problem in the instance mesh.