NVil Forum

General Category => Feature Requests => Topic started by: samardac on April 27, 2015, 06:20:49 am

Title: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: samardac on April 27, 2015, 06:20:49 am: 1. Creas and extrude.

This is Subdevided object, red are creased edges:

(https://monosnap.com/file/3EWhs8GKAWk8kcxqNmpJ89LQfgJSuw.png)

Now I if you extrude, these edges become uncreased, and it looks like crease was interrupted:

(https://monosnap.com/file/wuyrnvW7u7bUysEnJfKzJc4cHGCnCa.png)

Is it possible to make these edges stay creased, like this?

(https://monosnap.com/file/mCimVDDjqx64DnWSqVL9wDa0Xp7NSz.png)

(https://monosnap.com/file/wGP1zK6dc50VR0gEEnTbMHA4G4KrD1.png)

It will save a lot of work, now you have to spend time repairing it.
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: samardac on April 27, 2015, 07:03:10 am: (https://monosnap.com/file/nYknSE52swaSfs41tvj9tbXES3Rxi8.png)
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: IStonia on April 30, 2015, 10:47:02 am: http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-May-01-15.rar

* On polygon extrusion, the program will auto set new edge's crease weigth, edge harden flag and harden the edge, base on the subd crease weight setting of the adjacent edges. The reason of making it base on sud crease setting is to avoid breaking other people's work flow.
* Subobject mode > Selection > Grow/Shrink > Grow Selection Within Hard Edge Boundary.
* edge mode > Selection > Hard Edges Not Sud Creased.
* edge mode > Selection > Loop Select Hard Edges.
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: samardac on April 30, 2015, 12:20:47 pm: Wow! Everything works amazing!!! Now hard edges become real power, and creasing now is very simple!
I'll made tutors.
One thing I notice when you extrude in this situation it will not create creased edges:
(https://monosnap.com/file/EDyolODkDpW7tpDCP3jh72LfQLZHhd.png)

(https://monosnap.com/file/BYFbYL8MVUDt29tbH9t4fmTuxcWFqB.png)
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: samardac on April 30, 2015, 12:37:31 pm: Also wanted to say, that now with all that hard edges commands my workflow changed a lot.
Now everything is going around hard edges. And it is really great workflow.
Now the main thing is to bring it some how to people.
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: samardac on April 30, 2015, 01:16:07 pm: Also IStonia,
Have some problems, with hard edges.

We do not need this hard edges, creases works great.
(https://monosnap.com/file/BCz7WaIj9sgOBaMU3HJKsqMfqB6C7d.png)

Also this:
(https://monosnap.com/file/ObHUOHvOOpoP7s1qEtcO99xTQvkw2s.png)

(https://monosnap.com/file/XbnrBGYbTZVGijDdCCIQNNGtlss9We.png)

Looks like it works arsy-versy. From Hard edges it creates soft and vice versa. And some other bugs.
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: kevjon on April 30, 2015, 01:19:00 pm: This is great, thanks Andrei and Istonia.

Quote
Now the main thing is to bring it some how to people.

I think one of the stumbling blocks for potential users of Nvil is how to transfer the crease information to other applications for uvmapping, texturing & rendering. For creasing to look nice & smooth you really need at least 3 levels, which makes for a very dense mesh to bake in those creases so other applications can open the obj.

A lot of artist want to keep their meshes as sub'd rather than a dense mesh.
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: polyxo on April 30, 2015, 05:07:02 pm: Quote from: kevjon on April 30, 2015, 01:19:00 pm
I think one of the stumbling blocks for potential users of Nvil is how to transfer the crease information to other applications for uvmapping, texturing & rendering. For creasing to look nice & smooth you really need at least 3 levels, which makes for a very dense mesh to bake in those creases so other applications can open the obj.
A lot of artist want to keep their meshes as sub'd rather than a dense mesh.
I'm of course not at all against transfer of creases...
But one has to be fair – it's a stumbling block pretty much everywhere. Exporting them used to be impossible for many years (exchange formats like .obj don't even support creases)and even after the introduction of openSubdiv in various apps transfer of creases ain't something which just works. Or do you know a sample of transfer between software made by different companies, where...

- imported creased geometry looks correct right away
- one has the same set of controls in both apps
- all creasing percentates are read out properly right away
- and everything remains life editable?

Just curious...
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: kevjon on May 01, 2015, 03:20:47 am: Quote from: polyxo on April 30, 2015, 05:07:02 pm

I'm of course not at all against transfer of creases...
But one has to be fair – it's a stumbling block pretty much everywhere. Exporting them used to be impossible for many years (exchange formats like .obj don't even support creases)and even after the introduction of openSubdiv in various apps transfer of creases ain't something which just works. Or do you know a sample of transfer between software made by different companies, where...

- imported creased geometry looks correct right away
- one has the same set of controls in both apps
- all creasing percentates are read out properly right away
- and everything remains life editable?

Just curious...

As far as I know that is correct. Each 3D application has there on version or variation on creasing and importing from one to another is not compatible without collapsing the mesh.

So an artist who wants to use creasing and keep it all sub'd is likely to stick with or choose a 3d application that does everything they need to do so they don't have to export. So that would limit the amount of potential new Nvil users which was the point I was trying to make about the benefits of creasing in Nvil.

Having said that, I'm really enjoying working with Nvil and see it as very fast modeller (once I get up to speed with it).
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: IStonia on May 01, 2015, 10:42:21 am: Try this
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-May-02-15.rar

I fixed some of the subd crease bugs. But I give up the subd crease based hard edge auto setting as I can't establish the related reliable rules.
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: samardac on May 01, 2015, 12:11:18 pm: Quote
But I give up the subd crease based hard edge auto setting as I can't establish the related reliable rules.
I also wanted to ask you about it but then thought may be you cab fix it, now looks like everything works good, thank you.
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: samardac on May 01, 2015, 12:24:33 pm: IStonia, I found some problem here:
(https://monosnap.com/file/rIktbUtkQvHdfSt3rPHZryjI1p8Dr1.png)
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: samardac on May 01, 2015, 02:13:40 pm: Hay IStonia, I just tryin to work with this new feature of creasing and looks like it have some negative side effect:
(https://monosnap.com/file/HBSAMyUnopG0iFkSs0CU3SztvCt9ka.png)

This effect will confuse users about how Auto - Creasing works.
May be you will make option for auto-creasing and will keep it off by default.
Because even I some times confused with results.

If it possible can you make it only work in this situation?
(https://monosnap.com/file/JtydputPHBpzFG7AUf8yDP3Chn8xAk.png)

In all other cases it will be enough to use Select Hard edges That was not creased and creas them.
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: IStonia on May 01, 2015, 09:29:45 pm: I just disable this feature completely.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-May-03-15.rar
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: IStonia on May 02, 2015, 05:37:45 am: It could be still useful in some cases, so I added an option

http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-May-04-15.rar
* Edit > Options > Auto Subd Crease Enabled.
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: samardac on May 02, 2015, 08:15:07 am: Quote
It could be still useful in some cases, so I added an option
Yes thank you I'll have ability to experiment with this.
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: samardac on May 02, 2015, 08:42:44 am: IStonia, I have an Idea,
Auto creasing is useful function but we do not need it everytime.
So what if you will modify Extrude and Inset streamline tools this way, if you tap Space it will automatically enable AutoCreasing? Or something like this.
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: samardac on May 02, 2015, 09:14:39 am: Or make shortcut Enable Temporal Auto Creasing. I think modifing streamline tool will be more convenient in use.
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: IStonia on May 02, 2015, 12:35:14 pm: Try this
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-May-05-15.rar

Create a hotkey for "Auto Subd Crease Enabled". When you extrude out the geometry and while the operation is live, hit the hotkey and your will see the changes in the geometry, provided it is in subd.
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: samardac on May 02, 2015, 02:47:09 pm: IStonia,
Nice, Can you make it work make it work once, so next time you extrude you have to run this shortcut again. Now it toggles permanently. So you will be able to turn it on/off but next time yo run Extrude you have to press this shortcut again.
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: IStonia on May 02, 2015, 07:35:45 pm: Try this
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-May-06-15.rar
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: samardac on May 04, 2015, 08:07:27 am: Hay IStonia, now this shortcut works everytime. Can you make it work only during extrusion or inset?
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: IStonia on May 04, 2015, 08:19:19 am: I don't know what you mean. Can you explain more?
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: samardac on May 04, 2015, 08:39:49 am: I mean that shortcut - Auto Subd Crease Enabled, have to work this way:

You can Enable it only when you started Extrude, i.e. only while the operation is live.

Now I can Enable/Disable - Auto Crease, wherever I want, i.e. not only when I extrude or Inset.
Try it just run NVil and press shortcut and you will see that it Enable/Disable Autocrease. But we need it only when operation like Extrude is live.
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: IStonia on May 04, 2015, 09:27:47 am: Is it possible that someone may want to enable it separately rather than in extrude/inset operation?
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: samardac on May 04, 2015, 10:06:06 am: Yes it is possible, but what is reason, if you can use it only when extrude or inset? As my practice show you do not need it every time furthermore you will need it less then simple extrude so that is why I think It have to be like option in Extrude.
Also if it will be like it is now, you have to create new shortcut for this, but it is not so major command to have separate shortcut. But if it work only during when operation is life you can assign practically any shortcut to it.
Also new users can be confused how it works.
I think it is like option on Cut tool when you press numbers for multiple cuts. They only works during when Cut is enabled, but they do not have separate shortcuts because it is not so major operation and works only with Cut.
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: IStonia on May 05, 2015, 09:20:00 am: I think it works in that way now. Please check.
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: samardac on May 05, 2015, 11:13:05 am: Thanks, work nice!
Have some notice in this situation Autocreas does not work:

I have this
(https://monosnap.com/file/zid2AevVgNo6elhTcLadQknZW6dKiG.png)

Than extrude this:
(https://monosnap.com/file/oqF9z5ojplTEmIukn5iQmgAt9UScVj.png)

As you can see if we have one of that edges uncreased Autocreas does not work.
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: samardac on May 05, 2015, 11:50:46 am: Also can you make shell also work with AutoCreas?
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: IStonia on May 07, 2015, 10:34:38 am: Check the new version.
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: samardac on May 07, 2015, 12:48:10 pm: Nice, Is it impossible to make shell work with auto creas?
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: IStonia on May 07, 2015, 06:44:10 pm: Do you mean to make it always work without pressing the auto crease enable hotkey?
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: samardac on May 08, 2015, 05:45:41 am: No, it was mistake everything works good, except this situation:
(https://monosnap.com/file/rIfitA57y2JWJ1ybN6RUhNFndjiGI4.png)

After I shell this polygon one edge is not creased.
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: IStonia on May 08, 2015, 06:36:36 am: I re-uploaded the file
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-May-09-15.rar
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: samardac on May 08, 2015, 07:03:54 am: Now all edges are creased but I can not turn off autocreas anymore. It has to work like Extrude.
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: IStonia on May 08, 2015, 07:27:56 am: I re-uploaded the file again.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-May-09-15.rar
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: samardac on May 08, 2015, 07:36:27 am: Working.
But now if I want to enable autocreas and base edges are not creased I get these errors:

(https://monosnap.com/file/VoFqVEAO2Kzn1HvQQ6Y9Wm1bKSSRAG.png)

(https://monosnap.com/file/xdcrMNj7IycMzOol6KYxGPh5Bk08rY.png)

After this everything freeze.
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: IStonia on May 08, 2015, 07:44:59 am: again
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Download/NVil-May-09-15.rar
Title: Re: Creas and Extrude.
Post by: samardac on May 08, 2015, 08:04:00 am: Working!