NVil Forum
General Category => Feature Requests => Topic started by: Vaquero on March 24, 2013, 05:01:14 pm
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I am just quickly checking out what's new in Maya 2014 and they added a "create camera from current view". This might come in handy. Maybe the creation process of the camera should get it's own tool in NVil where this is possible, too, just like with the creation of geometry.
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I personally don't see why a program which just serves modelling and no rendering or animation needs the concept of more than one camera object.
Makes no sense to me.
One should be able to store custom positions for the editor camera, and of course also from the current view, one could also set Focal lenght per view - but that's all well possible without cameras as separate object types. Just stored positions of a single camera with some stored basic parameters would do.
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I am just quickly checking out what's new in Maya 2014 and they added a "create camera from current view". This might come in handy. Maybe the creation process of the camera should get it's own tool in NVil where this is possible, too, just like with the creation of geometry.
But wasn't this feature present in Maya since like ancient times? Just CTRL+D with current camera selected in the Outliner and you've got a new "camera from current view". :)
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I personally don't see why a program which just serves modelling and no rendering or animation needs the concept of more than one camera object.
Makes no sense to me.
One should be able to store custom positions for the editor camera, and of course also from the current view, one could also set Focal lenght per view - but that's all well possible without cameras as separate object types. Just stored positions of a single camera with some stored basic parameters would do.
If you have more than one view, you'll need more that one camera object at the same time. I don't know, can cameras be exported? Then they could be used in other apps, eg. for rendering.
I didn't want to discuss the concept of cameras, but rather point out, that it could be convenient to have a view and say "hey I like that and I want to come back to that view later, so I just quickly store it in any way".
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Hi Vaquero,
I don't know, can cameras be exported?
Collada(.dae) stores camera information.
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If you have more than one view, you'll need more that one camera object at the same time.
No, sorry this is not correct.
All views in 3D-Programs can just be a single camera with stored properties. That's how typically editor cameras are handled and that's also how any custom view (also the one you are currently looking at) can be stored.
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If you have more than one view, you'll need more that one camera object at the same time.
No, sorry this is not correct.
All views in 3D-Programs can just be a single camera with stored properties. That's how typically editor cameras are handled and that's also how any custom view (also the one you are currently looking at) can be stored.
It depends on how you think what is a camera. In my code, there is no viewport camera body concept at all, they are only view projection settings and they are used on rendering stage depending on the option chosen by user.
But for the camera objects, it is handled in a special way so you can move/rotate them just like you can with other objects. So you can precisely control a camera when it is needed.
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Hi IStonia,
It depends on how you think what is a camera. In my code, there is no viewport camera body concept at all
Yup, that's basically what I said.
That simple concept was extendable for all custom views one wants to store - it's just another set of stored parameters. That works great in Rhino for instant. I am again thinking of simplifcation... The only workflow where one really needs cameras as objects, which get listed in the Scene tree and which get physically represented in the viewport with a widget one can touch is animation and maybe rendering, but this concept has no value whatsoever in modelling.
When I want to store a view which comes handy for certain modelling tasks I clearly don't want to create an object, I want to store and recall parameters of the existing default camera.
While I think that exporting cameras from Nvil was of quite limited value it still was programmatically possible to convert stored sets of parameters to Cameras as Objects at export time - so that they are available inside output-application which is animation enabled. Such conversions are offered in other software too.
If one established this solution one had the best of the two worlds. Simplicity in Modelling, Cameras where they make sense. I'm very busy right now but if that would help I could record you a clip of the Rhino-implementation of stored Views in a couple of days. Let me know.
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Ah, now I get it, I misunderstood you. I thought of a camera >object< as a programming object, more specific an instance of a camera class of any sort. One could of course also store structs in an dynamic array or whatever, that's up to IStonia. Again, I was just asking for the feature to store and retrieve current view settings, how it is implemented doesn't matter to me.
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I'm very busy right now but if that would help I could record you a clip of the Rhino-implementation of stored Views in a couple of days. Let me know.
Yeah, I'd like to see how Rhino handle this.
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I'm very busy right now but if that would help I could record you a clip of the Rhino-implementation of stored Views in a couple of days. Let me know.
Yeah, I'd like to see how Rhino handle this.
I've recorded a little clip and uploaded it here (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25213665/storingViewswithoutCreatingObjects.mp4).
The animated transition is not just a cool gimmick btw... it helps understanding where the camera goes when switching from one view to the other. When storing such a view there's no camera created, one just gets the parameters stored for that position. In Rhino one can also store the focal length for each view but I think this is not really necessary in Nvil.
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polyxo, thanks for the clip. Can Rhino control the exact position and orientation of the camera? That's the original request from a game artist.
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polyxo, thanks for the clip. Can Rhino control the exact position and orientation of the camera? That's the original request from a game artist.
One actually can, yes.
It is possible to switch on a camera widget similar to yours for each stored position and drag its position, target and field of view points around freely or set their positions numerically.
As it is only one camera one can only look at one widget at a time. I personally clearly would not need that feature replicated in Nvil as the program doesn't offer rendering. I would always set up cameras after export and can not imagine a good reason to do so in Nvil already.
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The implementation is not a simple one. I am not sure I will do it and when I will do it.
Edit: Actually, I can't see much advantages in the Rhino way. It requires extra interfaces to store, activate and manipulate. In NVil, if you don't want to see the cameras, you can hide them. While they are hidden, you can still use their settings through 'Cycle Camera Up/Down' command.
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Hehe.. but in Rhino I find my stuff.
I think I would have more joy with Cameras if:
- they were not listed under Geometry but under View
- one could align them to the current view by default, without a dialog requesting this
- one instead got a dialog to name that Camera and maybe at some point even a thumbnail image showing in the Scene Explorer
- one could set the camera object type to be hidden at all time. While in Nvil I would never want to see or touch Camera Widgets
- they got their own sub-section in the Scene Explorer and would not appear among the Geometry
- they would not get only get selected on click in the Scene Explorer but would actually change the view to that particular camera
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I could show you how they are handled in Maya also. since it had multiple camras which can all be used as the current viewport camara as well as camera bookmarks, to quickly move 1 camera between stored settings.
personally I think Nvil only needs the later, since it is a modeling app.
with stored camera settings I would use it to quickly move to like a first person camera and fov while modeling a gun or something like that.
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Hehe.. but in Rhino I find my stuff.
I think I would have more joy with Cameras if:
- they were not listed under Geometry but under View
- one could align them to the current view by default, without a dialog requesting this
- one instead got a dialog to name that Camera and maybe at some point even a thumbnail image showing in the Scene Explorer
- one could set the camera object type to be hidden at all time. While in Nvil I would never want to see or touch Camera Widgets
- they got their own sub-section in the Scene Explorer and would not appear among the Geometry
- they would not get only get selected on click in the Scene Explorer but would actually change the view to that particular camera
That's quite a few stuff. It needs a lot of work. I can't tell if they may benifit other people, so I need to see other people's opinion.
I could show you how they are handled in Maya also. since it had multiple camras which can all be used as the current viewport camara as well as camera bookmarks, to quickly move 1 camera between stored settings.
personally I think Nvil only needs the later, since it is a modeling app.
with stored camera settings I would use it to quickly move to like a first person camera and fov while modeling a gun or something like that.
Can you make a video for this?
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That's quite a few stuff. It needs a lot of work. I can't tell if they may benifit other people, so I need to see other people's opinion.
Please don't understand it in some demanding fashion :)
I just piled up what I think made sense.
When developing Geometry, all I want is an instant option to store a certain way to look at objects, a snapshot of a perspective camera which is not locked in any way. So that one can come back later.
The question for me is: What's the merrits or the possible advantage of the current setup over what I propose?
Look at other pure modellers: Silo, Hexagon, Wings and such - they all have no Camera-Widgets to deal with.
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Look at other pure modellers: Silo, Hexagon, Wings and such - they all have no Camera-Widgets to deal with.
It is possible some one may want the camera at a particular location and orientation. You may never need it. But when you need it and it is not available... :'(
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The question for me is: What's the merrits or the possible advantage of the current setup over what I propose?
Just have a look at one of your suggestions, "- one could align them to the current view by default, without a dialog requesting this"
If it does like that, some one may complain for without an option. If you create cameras as often as you extrude faces, it is definitely worth to add a new entry so you can create camera at current view straight away, otherwise why not just one interface does it all.
That's why I mentioned before that I want to see other people's opinion.
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i would keep the current system, and have a way to saving and restoring settings to it. so say im makeing some assets for a first person game, i could quickly line viewport up how i want, save those settings and restore to it later to check things out from a angle and fov similar to what i would get in the game engine.
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really short on time tonight and kinda shit this out, but here are some samples of working with cameras in maya.
i didn't bother showing the transform tools on it, but they do work like any other object when it comes to transform tools, and animation since they use the same transform node as all other objects.
but that shows how they are switched between, how to create new cameras, by duplicating the current viewport cam, and bookmarks, which let you save and restore settings on a camera.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nejqL18OBA&feature=youtu.be
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Thanks! I was already content with the Bookmarks :)